Speaker 1:
From the library of the New York Stock Exchange, at the corner of Wall and Broad Streets in New York City, you're Inside the ICE House; our podcast from Intercontinental Exchange on markets, leadership, and vision and global business, the dream drivers that have made the NYSE an indispensable institution of global growth for over 225 years. Each week, we feature stories of those who hatch plans, create jobs, and harness the engine of capitalism right here, right now, at the NYSE and at ICE's exchanges and clearing houses around the world. And now, welcome Inside the ICE House. Here's your host, Josh King, of Intercontinental Exchange.
Josh King:
I spent the week back at the New York Stock Exchange last week. It was the first time I've been back since Governor Andrew Cuomo rang the opening bell on May 26th, the day after Memorial Day, to formally re-open the trading floor after a nine week closure to help stem tide of COVID-19.
Josh King:
To my eye, the floor population is about 30 to 35% of what it was the day we left on March 20th, missing still most notably, our representatives of the 35 news organizations that regularly cover the hustle and bustle of daily life in the markets. You look over at the camera positions for the major financial news networks, and they're quiet. But like with the return of the DMMs, the floor brokers, and the governors who make the NYSE the unique institution it is, we'll soon begin to feel again, the presence of those who report on their activity, albeit with all of the safeguards that have contributed to our successful re-opening so far.
Josh King:
If you've been watching closely, you've seen interviews with our president, Stacey Cunningham, who's been back at her office at 11 Wall Street, shot from the visitors and members gallery overlooking the floor. The setup is a throwback to the first 50 years of Exchange news coverage, when media companies were regulated to the catwalks high above of the trading floor action. Even with that limited access was a step up from when guests, particularly journalists, were not even allowed in the building.
Josh King:
Do you remember the movie, The Sting, where horse races were called from ticker taper? Stories of Ronald Reagan using the same means to call a baseball game for WHO in Des Moines. Well, for the first 175 years or so, the only reporters at the New York Stock Exchange were employees, responsible for putting all of the trades onto the ticker, so the rest of the world could have a sense of the markets.
Josh King:
It wasn't until 1995, that a lone reporter was permitted to brave of the crowds, and embed herself among the thousands of traders engaged in the open outcry market, punctuated with the occasional shove or elbow. The moment ushered in a new era of access that helped transform the markets, and put everyday traders in the center of the action from the comfort of their own couch.
Josh King:
Joining us today is Maria Bartiromo, the journalist who gave us that inaugural trading floor report. The footage of Maria, standing in the center of the crowd, looking up at a singular camera pointed into her general direction, can still be found on YouTube. She's celebrating the 25th anniversary of that first broadcast by ringing the opening bell of the New York Stock Exchange, and she joins us Inside the ICE House today. Our conversation with Maria Bartiromo, on that memorable day in August, 1995, and her experiences covering the biggest stories in finance, right after this.
Speaker 3:
We started with a vision to transform energy markets, using technology to boost transparency and level the playing field. That vision and customer focus continues to drive how we look at opportunities and challenges in our industry. Today, we connect participants around the world, so they can trade, hedge, invest, and raise capital. We establish prices across asset classes, and create opportunity to solve complex global problems. We provide pricing that markets rely on, transform the way business is done, help companies grow to fuel innovation, and provide data to advance economies and society, while we invest in our communities.
Speaker 3:
20 years ago, we saw an opportunity to create a market driven by customer needs. Today, our markets create endless opportunity for participants around the world, and our team is focused more than ever before, to ensure the markets continue to function properly. On behalf of my colleagues around the globe, thank you from Intercontinental Exchange.
Josh King:
Our guest today, Maria Bartiromo, joined Fox Business Network as Global Markets Editor in January, 2014. She's the anchor of Mornings with Maria, Maria Bartiromo's Wall Street, and Sunday Morning Futures, on Fox News Channel. Maria began her career with CNN before joining CNBC, where she hosted Closing Bell and On the Money with Maria Bartiromo. Among her many accomplishments, in August, 1995, she became the first journalist to regularly report live from the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. Welcome Maria, Inside the ICE House.
Maria Bartiromo:
Thank you so much. It's so great to be with you again, and I'm really happy to be here today. Thank you.
Josh King:
With everyone sequestered at home, giving rise to unprecedented, new levels of retail investing and day trading, does it rekindle some of the feedback you got when E-Trade first came online in the mid-1990s?
Maria Bartiromo:
Well, you're right. And you bring up such a great point, because when I first started broadcasting from the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, there was a string of acquisitions, and these were discount brokers. And this was a whole new industry that was sprouting around what was happening. Because what was happening at the time, as you know, is it was an individual investor revolution, where individuals felt that they could actually arm themselves with the right information, and make their own investment decisions, and take control of their financial lives.
Maria Bartiromo:
And this was very important. And that is why I think I was successful, because I was able to help democratize information, and level the playing field, and put that individual investor on the same playing field as that institutional investor, who was paying big money for a lot of the information that we were reporting, because I was on the floor of the Exchange, and I had the access to the trading desk. So yeah, I think about those moments. And I always think about the string of acquisitions that we saw in the discount brokerage area, because it was a new day. It was a revolution for the individual.
Josh King:
We barely had email back then, not to mention Twitter, Facebook, Snapchat, or anything else. How did you sense that you were having that kind have an impact, arming traders and individual investors with this kind of information?
Maria Bartiromo:
Well, first, I recognized it because of the sheer popularity of the shot. I was getting calls from people, people were writing about it. All of a sudden, I became this sort of quasi-star, where people were writing about me in magazines; and it was part of pop culture. I then was in movies, and Joey Ramone wrote a song about me; and in the middle of the dot com boom, Joey Ramone was a big day trader. And he started contacting me, and asking me about stocks. And so, that to me, was an indication of what was going on, in terms of this revolution for the individual investor. And I was able to get in every morning, and call all of my sources that I was making, on different trading desks, and have them tell me what they were going to be selling to their clients, what they were going to be pushing.
Maria Bartiromo:
And as a result, at 7:00 AM every morning, if you were an institutional investor, paying big money for that research, well, guess what? Individuals just got that same research for free, because I was on the air with it. And I think it was clear that it was a moment in time that was changing. We were on the doorstep of the year 2000, remember. Amazon went public, I believe in '94. Google went public around the same time. And we were on the doorstep of what would be a technology revolution. And that was also helping investors familiarize themselves with the stock market, because they wanted to invest in the names that they knew, the individual stocks that they were aware of. And they thought that they could arm themselves with information, and actually make a change, for their own finances.
Josh King:
So Maria, you'll be ringing the bell on August 4th, the exact anniversary of your first hit from the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. Do you remember who rang the bell that Friday back in 1995?
Maria Bartiromo:
No, I don't remember. I remember the feelings that I had when I was first going into the Exchange; and I was nervous. I was afraid. Here you have a sea of suits, largely then; I'm 26 years old, and I'm over here with my camera. People didn't even know when I was on camera, as you said; it was one camera shooting in my direction. So they didn't really know, when they were bumping into me, or when they were getting in my shot. And by the way, I was in their way. So, it was a lot to get used to.
Josh King:
What was your working area like? How did you, how did that actual shot come about? How did you get Dick Grasso to agree that you could do this?
Maria Bartiromo:
Well, it was Dick's idea. Dick wanted to demystify investing. He wanted to open it up. It happens to be that we were starting a new show on CNBC called Squawk Box, and we wanted it to be different. We wanted to do lots of different things. So, knowing that Dick wanted to communicate what was going on down there better; remember, at that time, the major mainstream media would just put on, "Here's what the Dow did. Here's what the NASDAQ did." Nobody really understood what was going on at the New York Stock Exchange. They would show the opening bell, without really understanding what it was.
Maria Bartiromo:
And so, Dick wanted to make sure... He understood the individual investor revolution was happening; and he wanted to make sure that individuals understood what the New York Stock Exchange's role in it was. And then, eventually he wanted every opening bell to be an event. He had on... He brought down big companies, and made sure that those companies brought their products to the floor. For gosh sake, I was looking at my pictures yesterday, and he had, one day, a cow on the floor of the Exchange. I remember standing next to the cow. And then there was... The Hulk came, when they came out with movie, The Hulk. And then, there was heads of state, and presidents; he always made the opening bell an event.
Josh King:
So, Dick was doing all of these things, Maria; but not everyone was happy about suddenly seeing themselves on television while this shot is beaming pictures of you back for CNBC. How did you deal with either lifting the veil on this institution that had been private and secretive for so long? And what are some of your memories of people who may not have wanted the exposure at the time?
Maria Bartiromo:
Well, you're right, actually. There were a handful of people who definitely did not want the cameras down on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. And I don't think it was personal for me, but they took it out on me. I'll never forget one day, I tell this story a lot; it was Mike Robbins who really, may he rest in peace, he was an incredible individual. He hated me initially. But what happened was, I found out that Jack Welch was coming down to the New York Stock Exchange; and this was my boss's boss, and it was great. And I said, "Oh my God, this is so fantastic." I had been at the Exchange only about two months. I had met George. George was the Specialist in General Electric; GE was the parent of CNBC.
Maria Bartiromo:
So, George and I sort of hit it off; and he took me under his wing, and explained to me everything that he was doing every day: how he brought the buyers together with the sellers. He showed me where the flow was. And I thought it was just really fascinating, what George had taught me.
Maria Bartiromo:
And so, when I found out that Jack Welch was coming down to the New York Stock Exchange, I thought, "What a score. My boss's boss is coming to the Exchange, and I'm going to be the one to be able to show him around. And I'm going to take him to George. And I'm going to ask George to tell him what he told me about GE. Jack is going to love this."
Maria Bartiromo:
So I go to the GE post, and it really was a quiet day. I approached the post. I see George. There's about 20 or 25 guys hanging out in earshot. They're just standing there; there wasn't much going on. And I say to George, "George." All of a sudden, this guy three times my age, comes right in my face, "Run along! This is not your business. This is not for your little TV show. We're doing real business here. Run along! Get away from here!"
Maria Bartiromo:
I was mortified. And you know when you're standing there, and you have knots in your stomach, and you've got, looking around 25, guys waiting for a response, waiting for a fight; I got some strength, and I looked at him, and I said, "Don't talk to me that way." And then I ran along. I left. I mean, what was I going to do, right?
Maria Bartiromo:
But I went back; and I kept going back. And George felt so bad for me. So many of those guys felt so bad for me. Anyway, the problem was, later I called Dick, and I said, "Dick, this is not fair. This guy hates me. He keeps making these remarks about me. And you told me I could be here, and now I have to deal with this."
Maria Bartiromo:
And he goes, "Okay, Maria. Come up after the close. You're going to sit down with that guy." I said, "Okay." So I go up to his office. I find-
Josh King:
The heat was up, as usual.
Maria Bartiromo:
The heat was up, in Dick's office, always; hot as hell up there. So, I went in there, and in comes Mike Robbins. And we're sitting there, knee to knee. The whole time, Mike belittled it. "This is not for your little TV show. I don't want to see you around. Don't get in my way in any way, shape, or form, and you should be okay. Don't do anything with my business."
Maria Bartiromo:
Okay. We agreed to disagree that day. Well, for literally several years, every time I passed Mike Robins, he made a snide remark around me. And unfortunately, Dick told me later, "Maria." I said to him, "I don't know why I have to deal with this guy." He goes, "Maria. Unfortunately, Mike Robins is on the Board. And Mike Robins is the biggest broker on the floor. And he's the biggest broker in GE. And you went into GE." He said, "So just try to avoid him."
Maria Bartiromo:
So, literally, for years, I would go around the building just to get in my shots that I didn't have to pass Mike Robbins; because remember, he was ruining my credit with everybody else; because anybody he saw me talking to, they would get in trouble later. And then, they would never speak to me again, because Mike Robbins would get mad at them.
Maria Bartiromo:
So this went on for years. Finally, I found out that Mike was leaving the floor, and I thought, "Oh, what a joy. Mike Robins is leaving the floor. I got that off my back." A couple of years passed, and I go to a party with Goldman Sachs, Bob Hormats. And it's at Daniel restaurant. I'm sitting there with Bob, and all of a sudden, corner of my eye, I see him walk in: Mike Robins enters the room. And I'm like, "Oh my God. I don't want to be anywhere near here. He is going to mortify me in front of all these Goldman Sachs people. I just made all these sources. I don't want to lose these sources in three seconds."
Maria Bartiromo:
I start backpedaling out of the room and leaving. And then, I feel the tap on my shoulder, "Maria, it's Mike Robbins." I said, "Oh yes. Hello." And he said, "I just want you to know, I haven't seen your little TV show yet." And I said, "Oh well, it's going well, thank you." And he goes, "Well, I just want you to know. I haven't seen your TV show, but I'm sorry for harassing you all those years. You're doing a good job. I read your column in Business Week."
Maria Bartiromo:
And I said, "Oh my God, I just got a compliment from Mike Robbins." And that was it. And honestly, Josh, it was like, wow. I made up with Mike Robbins, and it was the best ever. And I always tell this story to women emerging in the industry; because I want people to understand, you earn that seat at the table. When I'm talking to a woman climbing the ladder in business, "Don't ever feel like anybody gave it to you. Nobody gave it to you. Nobody gave it to me. We earned our seat at the table."
Maria Bartiromo:
And that's what people have to remember; because Mike Robbins had to see for himself that my work was right. And I was doing a good job. And I was working hard to get it, and to understand the story, and to communicate it properly. He gave me the credit that I deserved, and I'm grateful for it. Years later, he passed away, and I send him my best regards, and rest in peace, Mike Robbins.
Josh King:
Mike Robbins may have been on the Board of the New York Stock Exchange, but a significant percentage of those on the floor in 1995 had a similar background to your upbringing in Brooklyn; forget gender, but did the commonality of background help the floor accept you as well?
Maria Bartiromo:
Oh my God. I'm so excited that you just said this; because you are spot on. That is exactly right. Nobody has ever asked me that question; but you're right. A lot of the guys on the floor knew my dad's restaurant in Brooklyn, the Rex Manor. And they would say to me, "Hey, are you Vinny's daughter? Your Vinny's daughter." And so, that really did help me as well. Plus, Tony Corso, who was really just a legend on the floor, he lived down the block for me in Brooklyn. I grew up with his daughter. She was my best friend. So I did have relationships on the floor, and they knew me from Brooklyn; and it did help for sure. And I think just growing up in Brooklyn, I had sort of the same toughness that a lot of the guys on the floor had.
Maria Bartiromo:
And I want to be clear; just because Mike Robbins and Seldon Clarke, who was another one who gave me a hard time, did not reflect everybody on the floor. I had so many friends and so many sources that truly helped me. And they helped me to understand the subject matter better. And so, I'm so grateful to all of them. I have friends today who I'm still emailing and talking to all the time, on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. It was for me, family. And it still is family. I love the New York Stock Exchange, and I love all of traders in it. Even though it was hard for me initially, they tried hard to make it as comfortable as possible.
Maria Bartiromo:
And eventually, they did let me into the club. Dick Grasso had a dinner for me, hosted by the Alliance of Floor Brokers. And the Alliance of Floor Brokers was this alliance of floor brokers who were really older. They were veterans of the Exchange for years and years.
Maria Bartiromo:
Well, they usually did roasts; and they would roast people. Dick kept saying all night, "This is not a roast. It's a toast. It's a toast." And so, they were so kind to me, and they talked about everything that I had done. And then they gave me this silver Tiffany plate; and they had it inscribed. And it said, "Thank you, Maria Bartiromo, for enhancing the image of the New York Stock Exchange. Love, the Alliance of Floor Brokers."
Maria Bartiromo:
I have this silver tray on my table, in my living room. I cherish it. And I cherish the Alliance of Floor Brokers, and really am so grateful for everybody at the Exchange.
Josh King:
On this podcast, the current president of the Exchange, Stacey Cunningham, who started on the floor about the same time you did, talked about how her experiences in restaurants were remarkably similar in tone and function, to what she eventually found in the trading floor. You mentioned Rex Manor, but how did growing up with your parents owning a bustling kitchen prepare you for the sharp elbows that were to meet you at 11 Wall Street?
Maria Bartiromo:
Well, that's right, because it was... I know why. Two words: hard work. I watched my parents raise me, and they were not telling me to do something and doing something else. No, they were working really hard. My visions of my dad continue, to this day, being wearing a bandana on his head, over a hot stove at the Rex. He was in the kitchen. He owned the place, but he was in the kitchen. My mom also worked so hard her whole life. I watched her handle two jobs. Because of that, they instilled in me this incredible work ethic. And that's why, when I got down to the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, I wasn't expecting it to be easy. I knew I had hard work ahead of me, but I was ready for it. I was like, "Bring it on." Because my parents worked so hard their whole lives.
Maria Bartiromo:
I was the coat check girl at my dad's restaurant. My story is, my grandfather, Carmen Bartiromo, came to this country in 1906. First thing he did was leave, and go fight in World War I. Then he came back to America, and he built a restaurant. He was a brick layer in Italy, meaning a construction worker. He built the restaurant, named it the Rex Manor after the Rex ship. The Rex ship was a ship that transported Italians from Italy to America in the 1930s. And that's why he named the restaurant the Rex Manor.
Maria Bartiromo:
My dad inherited that. He worked so incredibly hard for my grandfather, and then took over the place. And I was the coat check girl. When I got down to the Exchange, I knew that this was going to be hard work. I needed to understand the content. If I didn't understand it, I needed to learn it. And I needed to make sure to do whatever it took, to make sure that we communicated the story of investing properly to investors. And I attribute all of that to my parents, because of the work ethic that they instilled in me for so many years.
Josh King:
Talking about your grandfather and your parents, how did you get your start in journalism, coming out of NYU? You could have done anything. You ended up becoming a journalist.
Maria Bartiromo:
Yeah. Well, what happened to me is, I was studying Economics at NYU; and I was doing well with it, so I just made it my major. I didn't really know what I wanted to do. And in my junior year, my mother said to me, "You know, Maria. I think you would be good in journalism. You're such a good writer. You should try it." And I said, "Oh, maybe I will."
Maria Bartiromo:
I started taking journalism classes at NYU in my junior year. And then, I just loved it. I was a good writer. And then, I just... I took broadcast, I took radio, everything I could do, in terms of journalism at NYU. I had so much credit for economics that I just made it my minor, just because I had the credit. I didn't really know where I was going to take it; because the idea of having an industry of business television didn't exist yet. There wasn't an industry of business television yet. It was really at the beginning of it.
Maria Bartiromo:
So I started, I got an internship at CNN during NYU. You had to be chosen for an internship; and they chose me to go to CNN. In my heart of hearts, I really wanted to go to the main networks, because I just, I thought that was big time: ABC, CBS, and NBC. What I realized, in retrospect, is CNN was an incredible jewel of an opportunity for me, because there weren't any unions, and I could do everything. So anything they needed me to do, I would do. So I learned that much more. At NBC, ABC, CBS, it would be like, "Oh, you're the teleprompter. All you can do is teleprompt." At CNN, I did everything.
Maria Bartiromo:
So I worked my way up as an intern. And because of my economics background, there was a job posted of a Production Assistant in Business News. I didn't really know what that meant, but I applied for it. I took some tests. They said, "Okay, we're going to hire you." They hired me as a Production Assistant. Lou Dobbs was my boss, and I stayed at CNN for five years.
Maria Bartiromo:
And then, at the end of my time... The reason I left CNN Business News, because I loved it; I loved Lou. I loved Myron Kandel as well; he was one of my mentors.
Josh King:
Yeah. Of course.
Maria Bartiromo:
But basically what happened was, Lou wanted to reorganize the Assignment Desk. And at that time, I was what's called, I was an Assignment Editor. So, I would come up with a story idea, go out, shoot the footage with the cameraman, interview the people, and then come back, write a script, and then I would give that package, that whole script, to Terry Keenan, to go on the air with it, or to Kitty Pilgrim, to go on the air with it, Jan Hopkins.
Maria Bartiromo:
And that's what I did. I was an Assignment Editor. I would report on stories. I would put the piece together, and then give it to somebody else to go on air. And I loved my job. I was beginning to really put together a great Rolodex. When something happened, I knew exactly who to call. I was really getting into Wall Street sources. I was definitely loving being an Assignment Editor in the field.
Maria Bartiromo:
Well, Lou decides he wants to reorganize the place. And that means a promotion for me; but it means I'm no longer in the field. He wants me in the Control Room. I was going to become the Senior Producer on the morning show; Business Day and Business Morning were the show. Stewart Varney was the anchor. He was going to be my anchor. I didn't want the job, because it took me completely out of the field.
Josh King:
Right.
Maria Bartiromo:
So that meant I was on the morning shift again; so from midnight to 8:00 AM, I'm at my desk, or I'm in the Control Room. That's my job; no longer able to go out with crews. So, I remember going up to the 22nd floor of CNN, and crying my eyes out. I didn't know what to do. So I took the job, and I said to Lou, "Look, Lou. I really, I appreciate more money, and I appreciate the better title, but this is really not what I want to do. Is it okay if I stay on, after my shift is over, and go out with the crew to get the economic data soundbites?" Because back then, all of the firms today, they all have cameras in their trading desk.
Josh King:
Yeah.
Maria Bartiromo:
It wasn't like that at all. Back then, in 1989 and 1990, when the unemployment numbers come out, when economic numbers come out, we would actually physically get into the car with the camera crew, go to Goldman Sachs, go to Merrill Lynch, and do an interview with the economist. "And what did you think of the unemployment numbers? What did you think of durable goods?" And then physically take that tape, and bring it back to the studio, and then run the sound bites.
Maria Bartiromo:
So Lou said, "But Maria, you're going to make your day longer. You could be going home at 8:00 AM." I said, "No, no, no. I want to stay and get the economic data stats." And he said, "All right. You can do it." So what did I do? I used that opportunity, when I went out with the crew, to put my own tape together. And I would go with the crew, and I would say, "Can you just shoot me saying this? Can you shoot me then?"
Maria Bartiromo:
And the tape was horrible, initially; I didn't really know how to be on camera. But I sent it to CNBC; because that was the only other network covering business news, and I loved business news. And they said, "We love you on camera. We want to hire you." And so, I went back to Lou, and I said, "Listen, Lou. I'm going to be leaving, because CNBC is putting me on camera." And he said to me, "Maria, this is going to be the biggest mistake you ever make in your career; because CNBC is nowhere. And you have a great position here." And I said, "I know. But I'm not in the role that I want, and I'm going to leave." And the rest is history. A year into it, I went down to the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, and became the person to broadcast from there. And it was just amazing.
Josh King:
You're at the... You're at CNBC, Maria. You're on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. Your popularity is beginning to grow dramatically. You're given the moniker, "Money Honey," which eventually you trademark, and even had a line of products built around. And in many ways, that nickname was a reflection of those times. Do you think you would have embraced the name in the same way if was 2020?
Maria Bartiromo:
No. I don't think you could get away with that today. Back then, honestly, I was flattered. I was flattered to even get noticed, frankly. I didn't need to... People used to say to me, "Oh, aren't you upset? They're calling you Money Honey?" Of course not. It's a compliment. Who cares? And by the way, no one actually said, "Hey, Money Honey. Here's what I have to tell you." No. They would just refer to me that way.
Maria Bartiromo:
And I was never worried that my audience, that my sources did not take me seriously. They knew that when I called them, I was getting down to business. They knew that when I did an interview, I was getting right to the meat and potatoes. So nobody was questioning if I was just some person who didn't, who was Money Honey. And so I didn't think of it in any negative way. And so, I appreciated getting noticed, you're right. But I don't think it could have flown today, that's for sure.
Josh King:
After the break, Maria Bartiromo, Global Business Editor and Anchor for Fox Business News, and I will discuss how the events she's covered have shaped markets, journalism, and the globe. That's all right after this.
Speaker 5:
In our time of greatest need, we want to thank the true heroes around the world for stepping up, for taking care of us, and keeping us safe. With your expertise, your commitment, your sacrifice, and your selflessness, we'll work together to create a brighter future. And we thank you for reminding us what really matters. From all of us, thank you.
Josh King:
Welcome back. Before the break, Maria Bartiromo, the Global Business Editor and Anchor for Fox Business News and I were discussing that historic day that she became the first reporter to ever provide daily updates from the bustling trading floor of the New York Stock Exchange.
Josh King:
So before the break, Maria, we were discussing the increased role that individual investors played in the market and your audience through the 1990s. The tools that opened the markets to the world were part of the technology boom of that decade. All booms have their busts; and the dot com bubble was the first recession you covered. What are some of your memories of the months leading up to the bust, and what you learned about reporting on a downturn?
Maria Bartiromo:
It's interesting. It's an important question, because many people have not seen a downturn. And it's really important to understand that things don't go up forever, and if it doesn't make sense, well, maybe it doesn't make sense. And so, I think I go back to the fundamental notion of, "If it looks too good to be true, it probably is."
Maria Bartiromo:
And what happened during the dot com bubble is, we really lost all sense of reality. We threw all fundamentals out the window. When you are looking at a stock to buy, you look at earnings and revenue and the growth story of that company. Well here, because we were on the doorstep of the year 2000, and we were on the doorstep of this new technology revolution, people just thought that, "Well, it's going to be different this time. So let's just measure clicks to the website. Let's just measure popularity. Let's just measure how much usage this company has on the internet."
Maria Bartiromo:
And so, for a long time, during the run-up to dot com, and during the boom, right before the bust, people were just throwing fundamentals out the window. And I think you have to recognize that if it looks too good to be true, it probably is. And so then, we started to come back down to earth; and people recognized that, "Well, if a company doesn't have any earnings, and has very little revenue, well, why is the stock trading at 50 times or 200 times, 1,000 times, what would be earnings?" And so, I think these are really important things to remember. When you're in it, it's hard to know you're in a bubble.
Maria Bartiromo:
The same thing happened to us a few years later, when we started to recognize that housing was rallying as much as it was. And if you remember, you go back to the year 2006, is one year that I often look at. The average home in Phoenix, and I just picked a state; a lot of states were like this. But the average home in Phoenix in 2006 was up 40% from a year earlier.
Maria Bartiromo:
So when you start to peel back the onion, and think about that. Well, why? Did population growth soar? No. Is the housing and the school system better? No. It was nothing. It was just a euphoria that we just came to believe: home prices just keep going up. Just like we came to believe dot com just keeps going up. Until it doesn't. And that's what happened in the dot com bust, and then again, a couple of years later, in the housing bust.
Josh King:
In the midst of that early 2000s recession, you published your first book, Use the News, which was an occasion celebrated with a July, 2001 book signing on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. How did that book help pull the veil on what was happening on the economy at large, but specifically on the floor?
Maria Bartiromo:
Well, thank you. Yes. I was so grateful to be able to have that book party on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. That's another thing people don't realize. Having a party on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange is probably the coolest thing you're ever going to do.
Josh King:
Absolutely.
Maria Bartiromo:
Okay? Because there you are, on the trading floor, and you're having a drink and having hors d'oeuvres. It's just really wild. As far as the book, I think it really marks a moment in time, because it was a time when we were flooded with information. Okay? Information is coming at us at all times. And I was part of that. Every morning, I'm over there on the air, telling you, "This person upgraded that. And that person downgraded that. And this is impacting this stock." And so, there's a lot of noise out there.
Maria Bartiromo:
And so, it had become very clear to me that it's getting out of control. There is much information, that there's a real responsibility on the part of each of us individually; the onus is now on us, to make sure we understand what's important, and what's just noise. What is news? What are the important things that move stocks and impact our lives? And what are those headlines and noise things that are just clouding up our concentration?
Maria Bartiromo:
And so, that's why I wrote the book. And it's funny, because today, I could write that book again, how to separate all the noise from the investment nuggets, and make money in any economy. Because there's more noise today than ever. It just has gotten worse. And the responsibility, once again, is on each of us, individually. We have to make a decision, "I'm not going to be flooded with all this stuff in my head. I need to focus and prioritize this."
Josh King:
A few months after that, 2001 is always going to be punctuated by the terrible events of September 11th. You were already at the NYC before for the first plane hit the Trade Center. Take us through that day.
Maria Bartiromo:
Oh God. This is one of the most important days of my life, certainly. And certainly, one of the saddest days of all of our lives. I had gotten to the Exchange that day as I always do. And I was doing my job. And I saw the first plane hit the first Tower from my office. I had an office above the floor, on the first floor. And so, as soon as I saw the plane hit the building, I ran out to the front of the building. I ran out to the corner of Wall Street and Broadway; and the crowds were gathering. We were all looking at the smoke coming out of the Tower. And literally, I called into the show, and I was telling everybody what was happening on the street corner.
Maria Bartiromo:
People were... There was so much comradery. People were sharing their Blackberrys; and the phones went down, so we didn't have any service. So we were like, "Oh, can I use your phone? We want to just call people, to tell people what we were seeing." And then, as I'm standing there, I went back up. Then I came back; and then as I'm standing, I watched the second plane go into the second Tower, in front of my eyes.
Maria Bartiromo:
And then, I'm standing in the same spot, and the buildings start to collapse. And all of a sudden, there's debris everywhere, blowing everywhere. You had to close your eyes, because you couldn't even see. And then, so I ran for my life at that point, when the buildings started to collapse. It was such a dark day. I ran back to the Exchange, but I noticed that the Exchange was all boarded up. I couldn't get back in.
Maria Bartiromo:
So I went across the street to the MetLife Building, and I hid in that little cove there, three steps down. And I'm standing there, and a woman next to me is crying. And I'm like, "You have to stop crying. We have to get through this." For a minute there, I thought, "Well, this is it. It's over. Something's happening here." It was just such an incredible day.
Maria Bartiromo:
And I went back in, and I was covered in soot. I remember I had my burgundy suit on and my black patent leather shoes. They were completely white, covered with dirt and soot from outside. I went back on the air; and we kept broadcasting, because the cameras inside the Exchange were working. They were operated by our headquarters in Fort Lee, New Jersey. So, that was fine; I could be on the air all day. I made sure to go on the air, and tell everybody that everyone at the New York Stock Exchange is accounted for. There's no issues here, but we're waiting to see who needs to be accounted for from the Twin Towers.
Maria Bartiromo:
And I stayed there all day. 9:00 that night, I went upstairs to Dick's office, and I talked to him with Bob Pisani. The two of us went up; and then Bob and I walked up to 14th street. All the trains were out, and we took the train home, after walking up to 14th street. It was a day of shock. It was so sad.
Maria Bartiromo:
But every time I tell this story of what I witnessed that day, I also have to tell you about Monday, September 17th. Because on Monday, September 17th was when Dick Grasso led the opening of the New York Stock Exchange; the re-opening, obviously. The markets did not open again after the September 11th attack until that following Monday.
Maria Bartiromo:
And on that following Monday, I remember getting a call from my boss that morning; and he said to me, "Maria, don't forget. The world is watching today." And it was really a reminder that we were all so stunned. We were in such mourning, hurting so much that we had lost friends and family.
Maria Bartiromo:
But I stood there on the floor of the Exchange, hurt, looking up at the podium. And at the podium, I saw Dick Grasso along with the Governor, the Senator, the firefighters, the first responders, all of the people who had responded and helped us on that day. And it gave me strength. And after they rang the bell, they came on the floor, and I interviewed them all.
Maria Bartiromo:
And I just remember thinking to myself, "We are in mourning. We are so hurt. We are down, but we are not out. We will rise again." And that is exactly what I think Dick wanted. He wanted people to understand that, "This is America. We will come back. Yes, you got us. You hurt us. You took people from us. But we will come back. And we will rise again." And that's what was exemplified on the podium that morning of Monday, September 17th, 2001.
Josh King:
So, in the years following 9/11, you have this front row seat, as the Exchange prepared for, and eventually completed its de-mutualization; no longer the club of Dick Grasso. I even read how you found yourself in the middle of the dismissal of the long time New York Stock Exchange barber. How did changing the traders from being owner-operators to clients affect the floor community that you really grew up with?
Maria Bartiromo:
Well, I think that it did affect people, in that before the de-mutualization, it was very much, we all... All the traders had a stake in everything, and there was an ownership there; and they took it very seriously. It was no longer the small family, even though it wasn't very small, because you had 5,000 people there in the Exchange at its peak. But it was no longer the family sort of camaraderie. You still had the camaraderie, but you had to open yourself up to the rest of the world.
Maria Bartiromo:
You mentioned the barber. That is a great example, because the barber in the New York Stock Exchange really was part of who the Exchange was before the de-mutualization. And that is, everybody knew the barber. Everybody knew everybody. And, I remember at one point... Well, Francis Ford Coppola, the famous director, had called me to... Frankly, he was telling me that he was doing a movie, and one of the characters was loosely based on me. And so, it was an amazing experience. I met Francis. I took him to the Exchange. I showed him all around. I took him to the barber; and he actually got a haircut and a shave. And you remember those days when he had-
Josh King:
That's a lot of hair to cut and shave.
Maria Bartiromo:
Oh yeah. He got a cut and a shave. And it was so great to see Francis sitting in his chair; and he's got opera music blasting. It really was... The barber, as well as the shelves of shoes... The basement of the New York Stock Exchange. I wish I took more pictures, because it truly was emblematic of this unique place, this unique institution, that was such an important institution, as being the nucleus of global trading, but also a small, close-knit family, including the barber.
Maria Bartiromo:
And it was very upsetting to me when they had to knock out the barber, they had to knock out the shoes; and they turned the floor into very much sort of what you would expect in any office building. It was clean. It was new. It was... For guests to come in, to show the entrance way of the New York Stock Exchange, they want it to be corporate looking. And so they did away with a lot of things that were just integral to just the infancy of the New York Stock Exchange, and the family. It was amazing. I'll never forget how wonderful it was seeing the barber every morning.
Maria Bartiromo:
In fact, I was just on my way to this podcast with you. And I really did get emotional. I started to think of my time at the Exchange, and I thought of him; and I thought of going into the basement, when you first enter. And I thought of the security guards; I loved the security guards. And they loved me. I brought sunshine into their morning every morning. I know it, because they would say, "Maria. Maria's here." It was such a small, close-knit family. And yet, it was this big business institution as the nucleus of global trading. It was a moment in time that I'll never forget. It was so important, and so special to me.
Josh King:
And yet, change was coming. You could hear the footsteps, Maria. You covered the financial crisis from the floor, part of which you captured in your book, The Weekend That Changed Wall Street, and how the fallout is still impacting our world. What was it like for you during those tense months, seeing the crisis play out in real time, right around you?
Maria Bartiromo:
Well, first you have to remember that throughout all of this change, people were getting laid off. Okay? Business was coming increasingly through the machines. And you no longer saw the need for somebody walking from their booth, rather, in one room, to the post of the stock that they needed to get. And that 30 seconds, or that minute of walking over there, you didn't need it anymore, because it all came instantaneously.
Maria Bartiromo:
So, little by little, Wall Street firms started relying more on digital, and relying more on the machines, and taking people off the floor. And so, whether it was those people were going back to the upstairs trading desk, or whether they were just getting fired, the idea of losing people on the floor was impactful to all of us. It was very hard to swallow, it really was; because a lot of friends left the floor, and business was different. And I remember a lot of guys were very upset by it. They were losing business left and right because of what was happening; but it was clear that this is where things were going, and the future would not be the same.
Josh King:
So it's 2014. You left the floor, Maria, after nearly 20 years there. Why was it the right time to leave your post behind? And how would the floor change beyond what you've just talked about?
Maria Bartiromo:
So you saw all of these cycles, where the way we were doing things was changing. First, we're on the doorstep of the year 2000, and everything changes: anything with a dot com, any business with the delivery, or the ability to order things online. That was where the value creation was. That was where the growth was. You go a few years later, and you see the same thing with housing. And you see that, "Well, there's a housing bust, and valuations are coming down." And little by little, as I approached the end of my contract; and I remember CNBC had asked me to sign another five.... I had done a five-year deal, a couple of times. So I was approaching the end of my five-year contract. And at that time, it would be a full 20 years.
Josh King:
Wow.
Maria Bartiromo:
Being at CNBC. And I thought, just because it was a round number, just because it was the end of my contract, I thought, "Well, let me think about where I see myself in the next five years." And every time I thought about it, I recognized that there was more to "news, and business news" than just trading. And I was thinking about myself, and my own career, and thinking, "Well, I don't think I just want to be a specialist in just trading. I don't want to have that narrow news reportage of just trading. So I have to think wider."
Maria Bartiromo:
And I realize that managers of businesses did not want to see the knee-jerk reactions. We were no longer in the '90s. It was not, "Oh, look, let's buy dot com, and we're going to get rich overnight." That was over. People recognized that when you invested in the market, you were investing in a long term situation. I wanted more, in terms of what I was covering.
Maria Bartiromo:
And Roger Ailes had courted me for many years. He was running Fox. And the last time I had seen him actually, was at the Al Smith dinner, a couple of months earlier. And he said to me, "Are you going to ever come to Fox?" And I said, "I'm really thinking about it, because now I'm seeing that my... I've been here 20 years, and I want to see what I'm going to do in the next five, 10 years." And what I realized was, policy was really important; and policy was not a focus for Wall Street at that time. But I knew that policy, whether it be tax changes, deregulation, immigration policy, healthcare policy, would be important to people's lives and their money.
Maria Bartiromo:
And I wanted to learn more about it. And just when I... Just the same as when I got to the New York Stock Exchange 20 years earlier, when I didn't really know how trading worked, I had to learn it all, that's where I was on policy. And I knew that I needed to stretch myself; so I just took a risk. Honestly, I just took a risk. I said, "You know what? I'm going to just throw it out there. I'm going to take a risk. I'm going to see if another deeper angle on business was possible for me. Can I learn policy? Can I learn Washington, and figure out how that impacts people's lives; put that into the economic puzzle?"
Maria Bartiromo:
And I've got to tell you, I was so happy that I did that; because I've learned so much in the last six, almost seven years now, in terms of policy, and in terms of its impact on economics. And it's filled in a lot of holes for me that were never there.
Josh King:
Maria, as we wrap up, the markets and the media have both been transformed during this career of yours, that spans back to the, around the time of the Telecommunications Act of 1996. What are some of the changes you'd like to see happen in both, as we look forward to the next decade or so?
Maria Bartiromo:
Well, I certainly think that technology is changing our lives, and will continue to do so in the coming decades. Right now, you've got tech changing everything from farming to commerce, to Cloud computing. And this shutdown that we're in right now, is only deepening that penetration. So we will continue to see that.
Maria Bartiromo:
I did a one-hour special on AI a couple of months ago. And one thing that Bill Joy had said, and Bill Joy is a scientist. And he is the founder of Sun Microsystem, years and years ago. And he wrote an article for WIRED Magazine. Literally, now it's a decade ago; and the title of the article was, The Future Does Not Need Us. And I went back to Bill Joy during my AI special. And I talked to Peter Thiel and Eric Schmidt, and all these really important technologists.
Maria Bartiromo:
And they all told me that in the future, we will all have "robots," and they will help us to do things better. Right now, you don't really think of your iPhone as a robot, but it is. You don't really think of that vacuum cleaner that you have, that you don't have to touch, as a robot; but it is. Increasingly, you're going to see machines take on the jobs that we do, or that we don't even want to do.
Maria Bartiromo:
For example, I went to MIT for my AI special, and one of the... The Head of the MIT Department, the Head of the AI Department at MIT said to me, "Maria, there are jobs that we don't want." Like, for example, one job, the job of separating recyclables from the garbage. A machine could do that very easily. Pick up the cup, that's recyclable. Pick up the garbage, that goes in a different bin. These are things that longer term, there will be a lot of jobs replaced by machines.
Maria Bartiromo:
One job that I don't think you can replace, is creative jobs; because the machine can't really reason. The machine can't really joke. There are certain things that cannot be replaced, but there are a lot that can. So I would say to our listeners and viewers, arm yourself with as much information as you can about technology, about how engineering works, and also make sure that your job is such that you don't have to face a quick or an easy replacement by a machine.
Josh King:
As I think about the last thing I would ask you, Maria; a couple years ago, you authored an article in Forbes, on women and empowerment. And about your own career, you wrote, and I'm going to quote you, "I was grateful for the opportunity, but I also understood the importance of my work, not only for empowering the consumer, but also for showing the world a woman had a place in business and in finance." Has the world taken enough notice? And are there are now ample opportunities for hard-working women to make their mark?
Maria Bartiromo:
I do think so, I really do. Look. I always say that, "The woman is the CEO of the household." Right? We know what our kids eat and what they want. And we know what we're spending the money on. We know, when we go shopping, we're going to be buying this, that, and the other thing. It's going to cost this, that and that. So, we are the ones managing the household. And so, we are the CEO of that household. That's number one; put that aside.
Maria Bartiromo:
But today, you look at professional careers; more than 50% of the students in med school are women. More than 50% of the students in law school are women. More than 50% of the students in graduate school, at Stern Business School, and business schools, et cetera, are women.
Maria Bartiromo:
So increasingly, you are seeing women arm themselves with information, arm themselves with education, to get out of school, and actually have the potential to go right to the top. What we need now, is we need more support from men. You look at boards of directors; they're largely men. Men need to sponsor women. Men need to say, "Well, wait. Let's look at this person. Let's look at that person, who are females." That's the only way that we continue to get this done.
Maria Bartiromo:
But I do think today, a woman has the opportunity to go as far as she wants, has the opportunity and the tools to do as much as she wants, and become whoever she wants. The issue is today, "Will the men allow us to break free?" It's happening. It's happened slower than I would have liked, but certainly, when I was in a sea of suits on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, I saw the vision; and I think it's playing out just as I expected.
Josh King:
From a sea of suits on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, to as far and very far as you've gone, Maria, thank you so much for celebrating this time since you first came to the floor of the New York Stock Exchange with us. It's been a great journey. Thank you so much.
Maria Bartiromo:
Thank you so much, Josh. Thanks for having me.
Josh King:
And that's our conversation for this week. Our guest was Maria Bartiromo, Global Business Editor, and Anchor for Fox Business News. If you like what you heard, please rate us on iTunes, so other folks know where to find us. And if you've got a comment or question you'd like one of our experts to tackle on a future show, email us, at [email protected], or tweet at us, @icehousepodcast. Our show is produced by Pete Asch, with production assistance from Ian Wolff and Stephen Romanchik. I'm Josh King, your host, signing off from the library of the New York Stock Exchange. Thanks for listening. Talk to you next week.
Speaker 6:
Information contained in this podcast was obtained in part from publicly available sources, and not independently verified. Neither ICE, nor is affiliates, make any representations or warranties, express or implied, as to the accuracy or completeness of the information, and do not sponsor, approve, or endorse any of the content herein; all of which is presented solely for informational and educational purposes. Nothing herein constitutes an offer to sell, a solicitation of an offer to buy any security, or a recommendation of any security or trading practice. Some portions of the preceding conversation may have been edited for the purpose of length or clarity.
