Speaker 1:
From the library of the New York Stock Exchange at the corner of Wall and Broad Streets in New York city, you're inside the ICE House, our podcast from Intercontinental Exchange on markets, leadership and vision and global business. The dream drivers that have made the NYSE an indispensable institution of global growth for over are 225 years. Each week we feature stories of those who hatch plans, create jobs and harness the engine of capitalism. Right here, right now at the NYSE and at ISIS, Exchanges and Clearing Houses around the world. And now welcome inside the ICE House.
Peter Ash:
Welcome to the third installment of our special series of inside the ICE House podcast episodes about connecting people with opportunity. Our companion conversation with featured casts of ICE is new, "Make the Connection" global marketing campaign. In our previous episodes with McLaren Racing CEO Zak Brown, and HGTVs Egypt Sherrod. We focused on the connections that ICE makes in order to provide the data needed to improve performance and to digitize the home buying process. This week, we are talking to two connectors, Rose Han of Investing With Rose and the Einstein of Wall Street, Peter Tuchman, whose lines were filmed on the most recognizable backdrop in the commercial in all of ICE.
Peter Ash:
The New York Stock Exchange trading floor. Since it's founding in 1792, the New York Stock Exchange has been a conduit between government, business and the investing public. Those connections help the United States established itself as an economic powerhouse domestically. In the past century, we've seen that mission expand across the globe.
Peter Ash:
Over the decades, the companies and the technology that are used to trade their shares have changed, but the core concepts behind the exchange remain resolute, facilitate businesses with raising capital, allowing them to grow and helping buyers and sellers trade in fair and orderly way.
Peter Ash:
During that same time, the trading floor that embodies our equity markets modernized, which better serves the market and provides hundreds of thousands the opportunity to make a future for themselves based on their intellect wit and hustle.
Peter Ash:
When ICE acquired the New York Stock Exchange in 2013, the imagery of those columns rising up from the cobble stones on Broad Street reigned supreme, and was a physical embodiment of capital markets. But behind that facade, there were no longer 5,000 people running around the trading floor. How people connected had changed, and that meant change was needed to make sure the exchange could continue to raise the capital needed to change the world and allow traders to move in and out of stocks efficiently and transparently.
Peter Ash:
The process of taking a mechanical and opaque process to one that is digital and transparent is the calling card of ICE. This is a transition that's been implemented across all of ICE's exchanges, which span agriculture, energy, interest, foreign exchange, equities, and more. Nowhere has that change been more visible than on the corner of Wall and Broad street where ICE has transformed 120 year old historic landmark building into the preeminent venue for capital raising and stock trading.
Peter Ash:
ICE has modernized and strengthened the connections between global economies and the 230 year institution that financed the dreams of entrepreneurs, starting with Alexander Hamilton's plan for an American economy to the innovators you hear every week on this podcast.
Peter Ash:
The stories told in the, "Make the Connection," commercial by the appearance of two influencers with very different paths, leading to their connections with ICE and the New York Stock Exchange. First we hear from Peter Tuchman, whose career as the Einstein of Wall Street began when shouting was as important a skill as your financial intellect. Today, he is still a major presence on the trading floor, and focuses on teaching the next generation of traders, how to combine old school skills with new school technology. He strides on screen and delivers his line, "It's raising capital to help companies change the world." Peter then literally passes the focus to Rose Han who adds the words, "It's making complicated financial concepts seem simple." For the former Wall Street trader turned financial educator whose YouTube videos have held millions to take charge of their financial futures, that line embodies the power of connecting with anyone who thinks finance is too complex, or doesn't represent them. Our behind the scenes conversation with Rose Han and Peter Tuchman is coming up right after you hear once again, ICE's, "Make the Connection" ad. Take a listen.
Speaker 3:
Connecting the opportunity is just part of the hustle.
Speaker 4:
Opportunity is using data to create a competitive advantage.
Peter Tuchman:
It's raising capital to help companies change the world.
Rose Han:
It's making complicated financial concepts seem simple.
Speaker 7:
Opportunity is making the dream of home ownership, a reality.
Speaker 8:
Writing new rules and redefining the game.
Speaker 4:
And driving the world forward to a greener energy future.
Speaker 9:
Opportunity is setting a goal.
Speaker 10:
And charting a course to get there.
Speaker 3:
Sometimes the only thing standing between you and opportunity is someone who can make the connection.
Speaker 11:
At ICE, we connect people to opportunity.
Peter Ash:
Let me set the scene, after a few week breaks in production, due to the Omnicron surge, the creative teams of ICE Marketing and PROSEC reunited with Director Onvu at the familiar confines of the New York Stock Exchange. At first glance, it looked like a typical trading day, the floor was filled with hundreds of people, but upon closer inspection, something was off. On this Sunday in January, instead of the typical handheld and keyboards that traders carry, most had cables, cameras, lights and microphones in their hands. That isn't to say there weren't crowds dressed in the iconic traders jackets showing how ICE is, as Peter says, "Raising capital to help companies change the world." For Peter, it felt like a typical day in the office, surrounded by humanity and camera. He is after all the most photographed man on Wall Street, though, he admitted it was strange to be asked to walk the same 10 steps on the trading floor over and over again, instead of having the freedom to roam, as he wished.
Peter Ash:
It was a different story for Rose Han her typical setup for her YouTube videos that tap into ICE's goal of making complicated financial concepts seem simple. Usually only require a crew of one. I spent most of the day huddled near the CNBC set, where screens typically scroll market data from opening bell to closing bell, instead of prices going up and down, we watched the camera eye view, go up through the trading post and then reset after each take. Oh, and they were hundreds of takes. Between scenes, I sat down with both Peter and Rose to talk about the journeys that took them into the markets, and eventually as educators teaching others, the lessons about finance, that they had to learn the hard way. I'm excited to bring you those conversations now in the same order of their appearance in Make the Connection, that's coming up right after this break.
Speaker 12:
And now word from On Holding NYSE ticker ONON.
Speaker 13:
Pause is essential, it's part of the process.
Speaker 14:
Training doesn't end where my body stops moving.
Speaker 15:
Recovery looks different for every athlete. We have different needs, different goals, different abilities.
Speaker 14:
One thing we share our bodies need time, time to heal.
Speaker 15:
The moment I stop training for the day. What people maybe don't realize, is that the training is still going on.
Speaker 13:
You know why the training never ends, the journey just starts again.
Speaker 14:
Pause is sanctuary, familiar spaces and comforting routines. It clears your mind and rebuilds your body.
Speaker 15:
Let the healing begin, time to reset. There's power in pause.
Peter Ash:
What a day for you, Peter, typically you spend the day on the trading floor among all the cameras in media, but today you knew you were the focus of everyone there. How was that experience?
Peter Tuchman:
Today was really very, very special. I've never actually been on a shoot before. I've never had to repeat a move and a line before in this kind of a way. But I think it's super exciting. For me, this is the most exciting place in the world, and to be able to highlight this and talk about the human element and opportunity. So I've enjoyed every moment of it.
Peter Ash:
Can we give the audience a peek behind the curtain of what happened today? You're on the floor, but it's a Sunday, the market's closed, do you think we are able to capture the energy of the New York Stock Exchange in that scene?
Peter Tuchman:
I had no idea what I actually look like on camera, because when I do things on social media, I don't tend to look at it. I find it a little bit embarrassing in a funny way, but I wanted to get a sense of what it looks like, because I've seen films of the floor, I've seen pictures and for me it's the most exciting room in the world and the action is clearly one of the key elements to it. So when I got behind the camera and I watched me interacting with the actors and the movement and whatnot, it felt so authentic. We missed so much of that action that we had back in the day with thousands of people here, but it's still a super exciting adrenaline filled place. So absolutely the action was caught in a beautiful way today by this experience.
Peter Ash:
Let's talk about your experience. You've been here on the floor since the mid 1980s, but your career twists all over the place. Take us back, explain how you go from a record store owner to a New York Stock Exchange floor broker?
Peter Tuchman:
You know what? I've had a long, super exciting fun journey. I grew up in New York city. I went to Riverdale Country School for high school. During high school, I was an entrepreneur in a lot of different ways, I always had a fun hustle, whether I sold t-shirts or whatnot. I went on to college, I ended up getting a degree in agriculture and in international business, it was a part of my life where I ended up spending a year in Israel. I was going to get into agronomy and agriculture, turned out not to be my path. So that led me to my record store, it led me to trading commodities and I ended up living in West Africa for two years, doing accounting for Norwegian oil company, and then leading me here to the floor of The Stock Exchange.
Peter Ash:
So you follow the path to the New York Stock Exchange, but you still have to get in the door. I've read that one of your father's patients helped you get your start. Can you talk about your dad's experience coming to this country as a young doctor?
Peter Tuchman:
It's all about the American dream. My parents grew up in Eastern Europe, they were unfortunately part of the Holocaust spent four years in concentration camps. They fell in love after the war came to the United States and my father ended up becoming a doctor. He was one of the first Jewish students allowed in a German medical school. After the war, my mother actually dropped out of medical school to help support him through his journey. They came to the United States, he ended up doing a residency here at Bellevue hospital and started a practice.
Peter Tuchman:
His practice became very exciting, he had a wonderful clientele, some of them were celebrities, some of them were in business and finance, and one of his patients was a gentleman named Freddy Munch who actually ran Cowen and Company back in the '80s, and that was my connection to get down to the floor. I came here as a summer job, I had just come back from West Africa where I had done some accounting and I decided I really wanted to get into business. I had no idea that much about the floor of The Stock Exchange. The minute I walked onto the floor on May 23rd, 1985, I knew it was the place for me.
Peter Ash:
We were talking a little bit before we started recording about your brother's career in filmmaking and you are a great storyteller yourself. Does that come from your parents?
Peter Tuchman:
You know what? I think one of the most important things that my parents instilled in us, having gone through what they had gone through and have their lives really tossed upside down and then finding their American dream in the United States was the human element. The human element, the human interaction, about kindness and joy and opportunity too, that connecting with another human being can really open doors for everybody, and that was sort of the most important thing. My brother ended up becoming a storyteller, his path was towards medicine for a while, but that was more my father's dream than his. He went on to become a filmmaker and a rather well one and my path also led me to here and I flourished in the fact that I love to be around people.
Peter Ash:
That path led you to the trading floor. Can you describe that day in may in 1985 and what you saw when you walked on the floor for the first time?
Peter Tuchman:
It's not the job for everyone. There is no particular training that one has, there are no courses that you take in college that set you up for a job on the floor of The Stock Exchange. My path started as a tele typist, I came down to the floor back in 1985, there were 5,000 plus people on the floor of the exchange. It was a support staff around governors and floor officials, there were clerks and reporters and specialists and traders.
Peter Tuchman:
So the community was huge. When I came down here and got my first job as a tele-typist, as a summer internship and I saw the adrenaline and the energy and the human element, I knew it was the place for me. And that's why I stayed, many people will come down here and if that's not your path, if your path is to wake up, take it slow, have a coffee, read the paper, this was not the job for you. But for me, that human interaction, the adrenaline, the excitement was something I loved and strived for and craved, and that was why I became successful.
Peter Ash:
The energy and emotions that might be helpful on a trading floor can spill over off the floor. How do you manage going from the go, go, go trading to relaxing at home?
Peter Tuchman:
Some people can't handle it, some people, it takes them over the top. For me, it's actually a most relaxing state of mind, for me that's why I flourished here, I thrive on chaos, I thrive on excitement, I thrive on that human interaction, I thrive on the fact that every day I come in here and I still do it, I've been doing it for 35 years, I find opportunity.
Peter Tuchman:
It's amazing, this is an amazing network, it's the crossroads of whether it's celebrities of heads of state or people involved in finance or investment, or now in social media. For me every day I come down here, I interact with other human beings, some who I bring down, who I've met along my journey, some who just come down because this is the melting pot of the finance and investment community, and in every given day, I find opportunity to interact and learn from another human being. I'm a forever student of the market, and so for me, it's like, I come back to college every day of my life.
Peter Ash:
You mentioned celebrities, but along the way, you've become a celebrity in your own right here on the floor of the exchange. When did you first realize that you were the human face of a tumultuous market and where did the Einstein of Wall Street moniker come from?
Peter Tuchman:
I have a boisterous loud, perhaps obnoxious personality, and I've been that way for a while. When you come down on the floor of The Stock Exchange, you really have to create an identity or else you get lost in the sauce. In 2007, there weren't always media here, there used to be a young man named Mr. Gershwitz, he was a broker, he was called the market dude. And back in the day before there were a lot of cameras, a lot of media on the floor, he was the face of the floor of The Stock Exchange. Mr. Gershwitz decided to retire, he did pass along the market dude persona to me.
Peter Tuchman:
And that was the beginning of this journey. The press took to me, I took to them, my photograph started to be taken and disseminated around media around the world, and I became known as the most photographed broker. The name, the Einstein Wall Street was actually given to me by Erin Burnett . Erin Burnett used to work on the floor for NBC, and every morning I would run into her and she would call me Einstein and I took that name, I ended up calling myself the Einstein and Wall Street and the rest is history.
Peter Ash:
You mentioned that relationship with the media, which frankly has not always been positive. A few years ago, you wrote, which can only be described as a fiery op-ed providing your perspective on how some outlets were describing the trading floor. How has the business changed and what effect has it had on your job as a broker?
Peter Tuchman:
I came down here and it became my life. One of the lines and it's not my line, but I carry it with me as one of my mottoes is, "If you find something you love to do, you'll never work a day in your life." And so I've come down here and I've really thrived in this environment, this is a place I've been every day for 35 years. I've been able to reinvent myself along the way, many, many different times. But I hold this place really very dear to my heart, it's gone through lots of changes over the time since I've been here. I'm very protective of it, and at that time, the article that you mentioned MarketWatch, was trying to lay some darker ground on what we do down here and the irrelevance of the human element on the floor of The Stock Exchange.
Peter Tuchman:
I am a firm believer, first of all, that this is the greatest financial institution in the world. I am a firm believer that we are more relevant than we've ever been before, and I will not let anyone push us aside say, we are irrelevant, and basically say that we should be replaced by machinery because now more than ever, we are more relevant and we are more important, and we play a bigger role in the way this institution and finance and investment going forward.
Peter Ash:
Speaking of importance, relevance. In early 2020, we hit the market wide circuit breaker several times. You're representing both buyers and sellers here on the floor. How do you think the markets and this floor handled those events?
Peter Tuchman:
I think this place handled them incredibly well, and I always talk about how relevant we are more than ever. A lot of people feel that in the way the technology is with electronic trading, there is really no use for a floor anymore, and I push back on that in the hugest way possible, and I can revert back to what we saw happen, from February 12th to March 23rd, 2020, when the world finally became aware of what was going on with COVID. On February 12th, 2020, we went from a record high across all indices around the world, the balance sheet of the banks were in wonderful shape, the state of the consumer was in incredible condition and the markets were trading at record highs. What happened over the next six weeks, descending into the abyss of March 23rd, 2020, when the world became aware of what was going on in COVID.
Peter Tuchman:
When we went into a complete economic global shutdown, which we've never seen, no playbook for it at all. This market handled it incredibly, we did have circuit breakers initiated on multiple times, we did have mornings where we came in and the minute the market opened the market closed. But we were able to symbolically and in a major way, put the world at ease that in between their money and the markets and the execution of stock, that there were human beings flying this plane. There is controversy, there is crisis, there are the meme stocks, there are COVID, there are economic global shutdowns around the world. This market still transcends all of that maintains the integrity it needs to-
Peter Ash:
One of the tenants of "Make the Connection" is opportunity. You mentioned that you've evolved over the years. How has your day to day job changed to meet the opportunities this floor has offered?
Peter Tuchman:
This is a job that I love, it's not really a job, it's something I've found that is really my career and my love. And so obviously with the event of social media and I could be a little aged out of the social media game, but I've really adopted to it, I've enjoyed it, and I've taken this opportunity to change my messaging from just being a floor broker and trading for the customers of my company I've decided to really embrace social media, embrace the new retail trader that came along during COVID. The investment community. Look, there have been barriers to entry in getting involved in investing in the stock market for decades and decades. What ended up happening it basically in spring of 2020, all the barriers to trade this market have gone down, everybody's been able to be invited to this party to the trade. Everybody with a hundred dollars in the cell phone has been able to trade.
Peter Tuchman:
But what I found is this, it's no different than, if I wanted to go become a pilot, somebody wouldn't just hand me the keys and let me go fly a plane. I found that the most important thing is everybody got involved in the market in March, 2020, and everybody who hit a buy button looked like they had diamond hands and they became wonderful traders. And that's not necessarily a fact. What we do now about volatility and the vaccine and the virus and the way the markets have traded for the last two years is that markets do go up, they go down and they in fact go sideways, and we have a new normal now called the kangaroo market, one that goes up and down intra day on a daily basis. So I've taken this opportunity to change my messaging in trying to bring financial education to the retail community.
Peter Tuchman:
I'm one of the few people I know in my job, who have embraced this new, incredible 40 million plus new generation of people who are involved in the market. And I've taken my time, I've curated a course to try and embrace and educate the new young retail trader, to understand this is not a get rich quick scheme, that you've got to learn the tools, you've got to learn the rules of this game, it's not all about just hitting buttons and getting lucky here. This is an amazing opportunity for the new retail trader to create some generational wealth, financial independence and make a little money and have some fun on the side.
Peter Ash:
Speaking of generational, your son Benjamin works with you here on the trading floor, did you encourage him to go into trading and how has his path been different from yours?
Peter Tuchman:
So when came down here in 1985, the floor was made up of many, many families. There were hundreds of father and son teams, as I said to you, there was no particular trading to get this job down here on the floor, so what you often had were generations of people, whether they were market maker, whether they were brokers and specialist families that worked on the floor of the exchange, there were neighborhoods that came down here all together. So this place was a huge family, it was very common back in the day. Probably going back to the early twenties and thirties, where your grandfather worked here, your father worked here and you worked here.
Peter Tuchman:
And then there were groups like the Henderson brothers where multi-generations within a family worked here, cousins came down here, we did that. So my dream when I found something I loved to do was for my son to come here, he did go on and he ended up studying finance, and he like me, loves the adrenaline, loves the energy, loves the fact that you come down here and there's a new opportunity every day and loves the human element too. And we are now partners and he's doing an amazing job, it's honor to work with him.
Peter Ash:
You also have a daughter, any plan to bring her into the family business?
Peter Tuchman:
I have a daughter, her name is Lucy, she's at the City College, studying social administration, she's getting a degree in trying to save the world, and that's a beautiful thing. She does get on my Instagram lives with me, she does follow the market, she loves the energy, she's a people person also, and we always get a fun thing because she's the only person I'll invite into my Instagram lives, and she does talk about the market and Wall Street Global Trading Academy and buying low and selling high, so she does love it in her own way, I don't believe she'll end up working here.
Peter Ash:
You mentioned that you're involved in the art world earlier in your career, a passion that you've continued to explore with the six floor art gallery. How has art been part of your journey?
Peter Tuchman:
I grew up with Eastern European Jewish parents. So education and art were a big part of our upbringing, and then I ended up having a record store in New York in 1980, which was also an art gallery. I did live in West Africa for a or two years, and I got very involved in African art there. So that was a little bit of my background. But how it panned out here on the floor of The Stock Exchange was, when I started getting involved in Instagram and social media. People whose artwork related to money, started coming into my world and it was something that I found exciting. You're the archivist here, you know how important art in its old inception has been in this building, the archives here have been incredible, and so I thought it would be fun to really reopen this place.
Peter Tuchman:
You and Josh king have been incredibly adaptive to me bringing in some of the young new street artists to the floor. We were able to put together the big board art hall on the sixth floor, and that's been exciting. Our second curation, however, is getting involved in NFTs and a lot of the new art projects that I'm involved in, it's very important for me to say that there are projects that involve a cause and a mission and a message, whether it's all about helping mental health, whether it's about scholarships and mentoring young women to be their best self-
Peter Ash:
One set of artwork in particular is aimed at young women and education. Can you talk about Boss Beauties and how you got involved in that cause?
Peter Tuchman:
There's a small company called My Social Canvas, started by a lady named Lisa Meyer, it was all about empowering young Gen Z girls to be their best self. They also got hit by COVID because they were trying to raise money for scholarships and whatnot for young girls. Obviously with COVID coming along any institution or any charity or any organization that needed to raise money was completely shut down by COVID. Her husband Anthony Furlong came up with the idea that he started to trade NFTs, which people know a non fungible token, it's a new digital art form, has been a great investment for a lot of people who got in on it. He realized that if we created an NFT that represented the characteristics of strong women, that we'd be able to raise money for this project. They created this platform, they created this project.
Peter Tuchman:
We launched it with 10,000 NFTs, we were able to raise $4.8 million in 90 minutes for scholarships and mentoring for young girls. The Stock Exchange was nice enough to let me put up six of the physical NFTs on the sixth floor, as part of this project. Obviously look, The Stock Exchange has broken a number of ceilings along the way, bringing women into finance, they did it with Louise Jones, who was the youngest woman ever to a seat on The Stock Exchange as well as Muriel Siebert, who was the first woman also to have a brokerage firm here at The Stock Exchange. Stacey Cunningham has been my friend for many, many years on the floor, who recently became the first woman president of the New York Stock Exchange. Now we have Lynn Martin, another woman who's going to be her successor. So Boss Beauties being here at The Stock Exchange, having a new woman president of the New York Stock Exchange is really for the world to see how important it is to have women in finance-
Peter Ash:
You've put a lot of effort into building connections with the current and next generation of traders, and you mentioned you often host some of the biggest names of finance Twitter here at The Exchange. Why is it important to bring traders who likely will never work a day in a traditional office into this building?
Peter Tuchman:
I love everything about this institution and I've taken it upon myself to be the ambassador of it. I've also taken it upon myself to try and connect the bridges of people who have any interest in this marketplace and in finance and investment. And what we've seen over the last two years is that has absolutely exploded, 40 million plus new people have got involved in investment and in trading. And so I brought so many different people, whether it's George Lopez, obviously Sean Connery brought down here, Wall street Trappers, a young gentleman from New Orleans, who runs a company that teaches generational wealth to people of color.
Peter Tuchman:
I brought down Boss Beauties, who talks about empowering young women, I've taken upon it to basically bring together everybody who has any interest in human beings, in finance, in building bridges, in finding opportunity and human element and interaction. I think it's all about empowerment, it's about joy, it's about kindness, and it's about sharing. I'm not about somebody who thinks that whoever dies with the most joys is the winner here. It's a matter of how much joy and excitement I can bring in other people's lives, how I can create a community that's a powerful community, and share all that I know and connect. I'm a connector and one all about opportunity, I'm here to connect everybody I know together.
Peter Ash:
It's been a long day for you. So one final question. Your father taught medicine well into his 90s, which means by that metric, you're only about halfway through your career, where do you see it going from here?
Peter Tuchman:
I love what I do now, I'm a trader first and foremost. I feel like I'm a motivator and somebody who brings inspiration to other people, young people. Hopefully only halfway through my life, I have a course to teach technical analysis and trading with my partner, David Green, to people all over the world, I do four to five TV shows a week to share my message of hope and investment in finance and education and financial literacy to everyone around the world. I have enough time in my day to do all of the above, I will never retire, they're going to carry me out of here.
Peter Ash:
Thanks so much, Peter. That was my conversation with Peter Tuchman on his career, thoughts about the future investing and becoming the Einstein of Wall Street. After this brief break, we'll talk to Rose Han whose line in "Make the Connection" is, "Making complicated financial concepts simple." Which embodies her mission to open up the markets to everyone.
Speaker 12:
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Speaker 16:
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Peter Ash:
Thank you, Rose. You took to that camera instantly, It was amazing to watch. What was your experience on set like?
Rose Han:
Well, I was pretty surprised at how many moving parts there are, it's such a big production because for me and my YouTube videos, it's just me and my camera and I pretty much a one woman show when I shoot. So it was quite impressive, but I tried to just use the same principles. I remember when I recorded my first YouTube video, I was really nervous and I probably sounded very unnatural and someone gave me the tip, like, "Pretend that it's your best friend behind the camera." So that's what I tried to do and I think it worked.
Peter Ash:
It definitely did. Connection was the theme of the commercial and also something you've really embodied with Investing With Rose. I saw a tweet from 2019 when you were excited to have hit a hundred subscribers, today, you have over half a million. Have you been able to connect with such a wide audience?
Rose Han:
I think it's just being genuine. I think what people get out of my videos is they feel my humanity, I'm not just talking at them about stuff they should do with their money, but I share stories, I don't pretend that I'm perfect, and I've made the most amazing financial decisions all my life, and I'm this guru that's like way above everyone, I think that like just being relatable. And also I really work hard to make my videos very concise, so people are busy and they get good information in a short amount of time. I think luck has a lot to do with it. YouTube, the fact that anyone with a message can just turn on a camera and reach potentially millions of people worldwide 24/7, that also has really helped me.
Peter Ash:
You mentioned how anyone can get a camera and start a YouTube. That has allowed a diverse group of people to provide their voice to the conversations around finance, why is that important?
Rose Han:
I really think you can't be what you can't see. So if you are wanting to improve your finances and you don't see anyone that looks like you, everyone who seems to be crushing it financially is traditional, what you see on CNBC white male, a little bit older, then it's hard to think that you can improve your own finances. Maybe you think something's wrong with you or something's different about you. So for me I think every time I've really related to a mentor, who's helped me grow, it's because I related to them in a way.
Rose Han:
So I think I'm just trying to be the financial role model that I probably would've needed when I was starting this journey. The fact that there weren't people looking like me, talking about the stuff that I talk about, that actually was a challenge, it was a bit scary for me to start sharing my message on YouTube because I was like, "Who am I to do that, when no one else I can relate to, is doing that?" So a bit of imposter syndrome.
Peter Ash:
I read that you started investing at 14 after reading Rich Dad Poor Dad. Do you remember what your first investment was?
Rose Han:
Yeah, my first investment was McDonald's and it happened to do really well, but I can't say it was because I was a genius, I just did something. So that was a really good learning experience, it's a really good way to just dip your toes.
Peter Ash:
Well, there is a saying you should invest what you know, where did this interest in finance and investing come from, were your parents working in finance?
Rose Han:
What's interesting is no one in my family really invested in stocks, I think my dad did a few things, but I think he just knew deep down inside that, it would be good for me to learn about investing, but it's not like he is in the financial industry, he's actually an engineer, and my mom is a teacher and my culture of Koreans, we back home, they'll invest in Real Estate Stocks. The stock market is not really a thing there, academic education was the thing that was mostly emphasized, not financial education, and I realized later on in my 20s that actually academic education is important, but also financial education is important too.
Peter Ash:
Speaking of education, what was your path from a stock owning 14 year old, to a trading desk at HSBC?
Rose Han:
I guess my investing journey started when I was 14, haphazardly just buying a random stock, and for some reason I was always just really interested in money. I think part of it is just the nerd in me, there's so much to learn in finance, the markets are always changing and I remember picking up a copy of investing for dummies on my own, after my dad introduced this stuff to me, so that interest always continued and I chose to study finance in college. And that led me to my first job, which was on Wall Street following that very traditional finance background.
Peter Ash:
You mentioned a change in your mindset in your twenties about financial education. When did you realize that staying on this traditional career path, wasn't the right place for you and your own financial future?
Rose Han:
So after a couple of years working in Corporate in Wall Street at HSBC, I always loved the content of what I did, learning about markets, trading, making investment decisions. But after about four years, I felt pretty burnt out, I've always dreamed of being financially free and retiring early, and I could just do the math and I could tell, I wouldn't get there at this rate, like earning that kind of money or just being an employee for the rest of my life, and also spending everything I made, just not being very financially responsible.
Rose Han:
So that led me to what I like to call my financial awakening. After a couple years, it's like you do everything society tells you should do, work hard, study hard, go to college, get a good degree, get a good job. And so I did all those things yet, I graduated with all these student loans and I was spending everything I made and my finances were a mess, like my 401k, I didn't really know what was going on with that. So I think that everyone comes to sort their personal come to Jesus moment where the pain of continuing on that same path is greater than the pain it takes to just face what you fear, face your finances, no matter how scary they look and make changes, but it all started with that financial awakening.
Peter Ash:
When did you first begin to think that your own journey and self education and financial independent was something others would be interested in hearing about?
Rose Han:
After this financial awakening moment, I just read every book that I could, I was the kind of person who wouldn't really look at what was going on in my bank account and just hoped that everything was okay. But from that point on, I was just on top of everything, monitoring my spending and investing even though was scared to do it on a big scale. Of course my finances improved, I paid off my debt, my net worth started growing, that was great, the numbers, but probably the most rewarding thing about it is the empowerment that I felt just taking charge of your life and feeling in control. So I wanted to share it, and I also realized, I think I had an advantage because I come from a finance background, so I was able to navigate all the jungle of information online about how to invest and all of that.
Rose Han:
Because I just come from that background, but I could tell like, wow, if you work in fashion or you've never heard any financial terminology, this must be so intimidating because it was intimidating for me. So I really wanted to share that sense of empowerment. I think just inherently, I love to see people win and I'd cheer people on, so all of that just combined and that inspired me to start a meetup. So all of this started offline before it went online and the title of the meetup was, Wealthy Women, because initially I was mostly just talking to women and I think about 15 women showed up to that first meetup, this was like in 2017. And then within a year it grew to about 500 attendees, like regular events every month, and that's where I gained confidence that I could teach these things and people really got value from what I had to share and just seeing how into it, these people were and what a difference it was making for them inspired me to expand my reach. So it all started with one little meetup.
Peter Ash:
So you decided to expand your reach by posting videos. Do you remember the topic of your first video and when did you realize that you had tapped into this massive online audience?
Rose Han:
I posted my first YouTube video in January, of 2019. And even though that was the first video that I posted, I had probably recorded maybe five videos before that we'll never see the light of day that I probably will never look at either because it's so embarrassing, but I posted that first video January, of 2019 and actually I didn't get any traction, really any views except my mom and some of the people who are in my meetup for the entire first year, and I was posting videos every single week.
Rose Han:
Inside I knew I had to keep going, so it started really gaining traction in early 2020, maybe the algorithm gods decided to you favor me a little bit or they saw me being consistent every single week. And then also there was one video that just started gaining traction, and I guess put me on the map, it took a year for me to start seeing really any views or subscribers, but I think I always knew I had something, it was just, I had to keep reminding myself every day and then it just to YouTube and the online world to catch up a little bit, to recognize me. It's nice to get that confirmation with numbers and subscribers and views, 2020 is when things went hockey stick, and I feel like they're still on that trajectory.
Peter Ash:
You said earlier about your own self education. There's so much financial content available on so many topics, what is the process for identifying a topic and distilling it down into a short video that provides enough information for someone to understand what you're talking about?
Rose Han:
When I am thinking what videos to make, it's a combination of, first of all, what I want to talk about, because no matter what, I have to be passionate about it since I'm the person in front of the camera and if you don't care about a topic, it's going to be obvious, and a combination of what I know that my viewers want to see, it could be current events.
Rose Han:
Like when coronavirus happened and the stock market crashed, I just did an impromptu video about that. Or recently cryptocurrency is hot and trendy, so I realized I should probably talk more about cryptocurrency because I'm getting a lot of questions and comments about it. So a combination of what I'm interested in, but also what my people want to see from me, what they need to learn about, and also in the back of mind, I've got this big mother attitude of, I think people really need to know these fundamentals, so whether people are asking me about it, I'm going to just make a video about it so that I have that in my archives, and I can direct to a resource.
Peter Ash:
You mentioned combining what you were interested in with the fundamentals and what subscribers were asking about, is options trading an example of this?
Rose Han:
When I first started my YouTube channel, I started with the basics and stocks, index funds, all of that, and I found that a lot of my viewers were wanting to go to the next level, and my vision is my channel one day will really cover a wide range of financial topics, investing strategies that take someone from knowing absolutely nothing, to becoming very advanced. After a while of talking a lot about stocks and index funds, people were asking me like, "What about options?" And also, I like talking about options because they're fascinating concept and it's intellectually stimulating for me to talk about. Another reason is that options are very misunderstood, there's a lot of different ways to trade them, and frankly, a lot of people get badly burned trading them, I think the way I teach options is a very levelheaded, non gambling strategic way.
Rose Han:
So I would rather have somebody learn options from me than frankly, anyone else. I never say like you'll make tons of money, you should sell call options or buy a call option on game stop or something hot and trendy and sexy, I don't really talk about stuff a like that or I don't talk about options in that way. Just knowing that people get badly burned and at least if they come across my content and get my dose of options training first, they'll be a little bit better equipped to make smarter trading decisions with options that really encourage me to start talking about options.
Peter Ash:
It stands out in your videos that you don't just lecture on how others should make financial decisions, but you explain how you are investing and share your own successes and failures. How do you think your personal life and being a real life example of your ideas helps you connect with your audience?
Rose Han:
I think there's a real shortage of real life stories of how people have learned about investing or what kind of investing they're doing or what it really looks like. So wherever possible, I try to share personal anecdotes and that makes it relatable for people, like stories are very powerful, we learn and remember things through stories. I rarely share story of like, I did this amazing thing and I made tons of money and this is how awesome I am. I think most of the stories I share are just, I made this mistake, I'm just like anybody else, I wasn't always good with money, I also get scared when the stock market crashes, things like that.
Peter Ash:
Speaking of sharing your personal life, you recently posted about your decision to move to Mexico. What is behind that decision?
Rose Han:
Financial freedom and travel, they've always been my two guiding lights when I make big life decisions. And I recently decided to move to Mexico city, which I'm really excited to talk more about on my channel, because I'm going to buy property down there and create a life there. I've always loved the idea of living abroad, so I've lived in Brazil and Spain and I think a lot of people aspire to do somethings similar, like travel the world or go abroad and learn a language and maybe money is the limiting factor or even just the idea of like, "Can I really do something like that?" So I'm really excited to just be an example, if you want to try something new with your life, move somewhere new, just do it and then figure out all the money stuff or everything else afterwards.
Peter Ash:
You tube opens up a window into so many places like travel that you mentioned, but also van life, I was watching a recent episode of yours and it was a tour of your newly designed camper van that you had purchased. What's the plan for the van?
Rose Han:
So my camper van, I'm very, very excited about it, I haven't found a name for my camper van yet, but some of my followers were suggesting names. I just picked it up from my builders workshop in Colorado, beginning of this month and I'm just driving it around the West Coast. It's going to be my home when I'm in the United States, when I'm not in Mexico city, I'll be in that van, living this nomadic life, and when I am not in the van, I will be renting it out on an Airbnb for RVs and camper van it's called outdoorsy.com. So I was interested in the income potential because you can rent it out for the same price per night as a hotel room. But a van obviously doesn't cost as much as it costs to build a hotel, so I thought the income stream would be interesting, but also I can use it for fun when it's not producing income for me, so it'll be interesting, and I look forward to sharing all about it with my followers.
Peter Ash:
This may be an unfair question since you haven't named the van yet, but you recently did a blog post on your top five books to read, what will be the title of your book?
Rose Han:
There is definitely a book in me at some point I've learned so much from the mentors that I've been able to hang out with VIA books, so just based on that, I know I would love to write a book one day just to give back, but I don't know what I would write the book about yet. I feel like maybe a few years more into this, I'll know what I really want to talk about, but I like the idea of a book because it's timeless, like digital content, the shelf life is very short and it's always like you have to create something new to stay relevant, but a book can be a real timeless classic like Rich Dad Poor Dad, which is that pivotal book for me when I came across it, when I was 14.
Peter Ash:
As you continue to connect with the audience and the world through finance travel van life and all of your other projects, what should we expect from you next?
Rose Han:
I feel like I'm just getting started, and I really look forward to sharing more behind the scenes, more of my personal financial journey, especially all this stuff that I'll be doing in Mexico and reaching financial independence, which I think I'll be doing in the next one or two years. So sharing real behind the scenes, more like raw unedited content with my subscribers, more of log style content instead of just talking head educational. And then the other thing is I really look forward to talking more about other financial topics, I want to cover every stage of the investors' journey, I talk a lot about stocks and index funds and options, but I haven't created any courses and not very many videos about Real Estate and Crypto, so I look forward to sharing more information about that and so if you want to stay on top of it all, be sure to follow my YouTube channel, you can find me at Investing With Rose on YouTube.
Peter Ash:
Thank you, Rose. That's our conversation for this week. Our guests, were Peter Tuchman, the Einstein of Wall Street and a stock broker with decades of experience trading on the New York Stock Exchange trading floor and Rose Han, a Wall Street trader turned financial educator and creator of Investing With Rose. If you like, what you heard, please rate us on iTunes, so other folks know where to find us, got a comment or question you'd like one of our experts to tackle on a future show, email us at [email protected] or tweet at us @ICEHousePodcast. Our show was produced by Stephan Capriles with production assistance from Ken Abel and Ian Wolf. I'm Peter Ash, your host signing off from the library of the New York Stock Exchange. Thanks for listening. Talk to you next week.
Speaker 1:
Information contained in this podcast was obtained in part from publicly available sources and not independently verified. Neither ICE nor it's affiliates make any representations or warranties express or implied as to the accuracy or completeness of the information and do not sponsor, approve or endorse any of the content here end, all of which is presented solely for informational and educational purposes. Nothing here in constitution offered to sell a solicitation of an offered to buy any security or a recommendation of any security or trading practice. Some portions of the preceding conversation may have been edited for the purpose of length or clarity.