Speaker 1:
From the library of the New York Stock Exchange at the corner of Wall and Broad Streets in New York city, you're Inside the Ice House, our podcast from Intercontinental exchange on markets, leadership, and vision in global business, the dream drivers that have made the NYSE an indispensable institution of global growth for over 225 years. Each week, we feature stories of those who hatch plans, create jobs, and harness the engine of capitalism right here, right now, at the NYSE and at Ice's 12 exchanges and six clearing houses around the world. And now welcome, inside the Ice House, here's your host, Josh King, of Intercontinental Exchange.
Josh King:
They call it the Tiger effect. The stock of Nike, that's NYSE ticker symbol NKE, rose 4.9% in the days following the victory of Tiger Woods in April, at the 2019 Masters at Augusta, his first major victory since 2008. According to some, the win that the 43 year old, who helped to transform the professional business of golf starting a quarter century ago, boosted Nike's market cap. It was $149 billion that week, up from about $119 billion at the start of the year. It's since floated down to somewhere in the middle of the range, and as you're hearing this episode of Inside the Ice House, just before the U.S. Open at Pebble Beach, it might tick up again in anticipation that maybe, just maybe, Tiger can win his 16th major. And then, there's this: Apex Marketing Group, one of those firms that measure the value of media coverage, guessed that Nike earned $22.5 million worth of brand exposure just in Woods's final round on Sunday at Augusta. Come on, you know that swish prominent on the golfer's shirt, shoes, pants, and hat.
Josh King:
Did you run out to Dick's Sporting Goods? That's NYSE ticker symbol DKS, and buy a red mock turtleneck to pretend that your Tiger rounding amen corner? You know you did. That's how it works. And how it works over at CBS, that's NYSE Ticker symbol CBS? The ratings for the final round, which started early because of weather, were the highest for a morning round since 1986, when CBS started keeping those numbers. Tiger's resurgence is a boon too for the FedEx Cup, brought to you by, you guessed it, FedEx, NYSE ticker symbol FDX, which punctuates the four final tournaments in the season, culminating in Atlanta, the home of Intercontinental Exchange, at the Tour Championship, at the famous East Lake Golf Club. The FedEx Cup was created back in 2007 to breathe new life into the moribund end of the season, with a $10 million winner's prize, and Tiger was its first winner.
Josh King:
He capped off that run with a win at East Lake, and then Tiger turned heads by winning it again last fall, signaling that Woods may be, just may be on the road back. It was at East Lake a few years ago, in 2017, that I met Rich Lerner of the Golf Channel. Anyone who follows the game has been made smarter about it by Rich, a man with a deep sense of golf history and a velvety voice to recite it, who grew up working at his father's driving range and miniature golf course in Allentown, Pennsylvania.
Josh King:
Rich and I talked a lot back then about how Tiger's career was probably over, the residue of the personal and physical setbacks he'd faced starting in 2009, and how a new golden age of golf was beginning with the new generation of buttoned down, incredibly fit, media savvy professionals. Well, based on how this year has unfolded so far, it may just be back to the future. As the golfing world flies west to California for the U.S. Open at Pebble Beach, we're Inside the Ice House with Rich Learner, talking about golf, the game, it's past, present, and future, and the business that surrounds it, right after this.
Speaker 3:
And now a word from Chip Bird, CEO of Levi Strauss and Company, NYSE ticker LEVI.
Chip Bird:
There's no other brand in the world like Levi's. We're here today because of the dedication of the 15,000 employees that we have around the world. Growth is being driven across the company. Men's, women's, tops, bottoms, outerwear, virtually every country in the world grew last year.
Chip Bird:
Being associated with an institution that goes back further than Levi's is special. This is where this company deserves to be.
Josh King:
Our guest today, Rich Lerner of the Golf Channel, has packed his travel bags in Maitland, Florida, and is gracing us in New York City as part of the broadcast team in town to cover the PGA championship at Bethpage Black, out in Farmingdale, in the middle of Long Island. Rich joined Golf Channel back in 1997, and has been a mainstay ever since, serving as a play by play host for the Golf Channel's PGA tour tournament coverage, and is lead host of the network's "Live From" programming, airing onsite from the game's biggest events. Rich, welcome to the New York Stock Exchange, welcome Inside the Ice House.
Rich Lerner:
Josh, thank you for having me. I just want to alert all the listeners that if they do run out and buy that red mock turtleneck in hopes of looking like Tiger, they're really going to end up looking like Colin Montgomery.
Josh King:
You don't want to look like Colin in a red mock turtleneck.
Rich Lerner:
I love Monty.
Josh King:
Your first visit to the NYSE?
Rich Lerner:
It is, and it's exciting.
Josh King:
It's a big day on the floor of the NYSE. The IPO of Uber, that's NYSE ticker symbol UBER, Rich, a traveling man like you, a guy who needs to get out to courses all over the world at zero dark 30 and is sometimes the last guy to leave, the population that supports a big, high-profile golf tournament have got to be power users of a service like Uber, putting those fleets of loaner cars that used to support tournaments out of business.
Rich Lerner:
Uber's huge wherever you go now. My kids use it, I use it. Although on this day when they had the IPO, I of course took a yellow cab down here. I do think Uber has made the cab services better. There was a lot of frustration a few years ago, you'd get in a cab and you'd say, "I'm going to Broad Street, corner of Wall Street and Broad," and they would turn around and say, "where is that?" That would drive me nuts. "Hey, I'm from out of town. You're the one who's supposed to know your city." It'd drive me crazy. I think it's made them a little bit better.
Josh King:
Let's rewind the process a bit. For a guy like you coming to a city like New York Rich, as you're on final approach toward New York City, the metropolis closest to Bethpage out on Long Island, a lot of flight paths take you over Allentown. You ever look down and find the old print of the old Dorneyville Golf Center?
Rich Lerner:
Dorneyville Golf Center, little history lesson. My father, rest in peace Les Lerner, came out of the Wharton school at the University of Pennsylvania. I was a smart guy, but like a lot of guys from that generation, the Les's and Abe's and Murray's, who were born to men named George and Sheldon and Samuel. They served in World War II and came out, and they could see what was going on in the country. People were ready to get on with enjoying their hard-won freedom. Leisure time was exploding. My father took up golf, he was working for his dad at Lerner's Department store in Northampton, Pennsylvania, suburb at the time of Allentown. My grandfather George, rest in peace, came through Ellis Island. You get a sense of that story.
Josh King:
I know that.
Rich Lerner:
My father was just a decent golfer, he had just taken up the game. Pretty good athlete, played some basketball at Penn as a freshman. He was driving back from a golf course in Strasburg, PA with his buddies, and they saw McGargles Golf Center on the way home. He thought, "man, that looks like fun. That would be a good idea, people are getting into golf." He borrowed $10,000 from his father, and $90,000 later the lights were on at what my father remembers as the first fully lighted cemetery in the United States. They struggled, and it was an 18 hole, lighted par three, I don't think my father understood how good it was. He hired a guy to shape the land from Quakertown, Pennsylvania. He was not a renowned golf course architect, but it was a phenomenal linksy little par three that had holes that ranged from 40 to 105 yards, miniature golf, and a driving range, the old fashioned with the green dividers and the mats, and had about 30 hitting bays.
Rich Lerner:
We were not a spot for low handicapped golfers. We had hitters, we had boozers, we had people out for a good time. My father in the early days, being a good businessman, he approached a burgeoning star from Western Pennsylvania by the name of Arnold Palmer, who had won the 1958 Masters. My dad had a great idea. Arnold will lend his name-
Josh King:
Of course.
Rich Lerner:
To this new venture.
Josh King:
Got to go with that idea.
Rich Lerner:
And then we'll have a string of Arnold Palmer Golf Centers across the country. Arnold was a shrewd business man in his own right, and when my father found out Arnold's asking price to lend is named to this new venture, Dorneyville Golf Center was born, named for the little borough on the edge of an expanding city, Allentown, Pennsylvania. It was in the family for 35 years or so. The state eventually bought the land, leased it back to my father and his partner for a number of years. Today, it looks like any other homogenized stretch of the United States. There's a Dunkin Donuts and a Carrabba's where the 12th hole used to be. My three brothers and I worked there through our teenage years, I worked there into my early twenties. We did just about everything you could do, cutting greens, picking up cigarette butts, working the cash register, with tons of characters. We had a dirty old range pro who was our Yoda.
Josh King:
Would that be Ted Bickle or someone else>
Rich Lerner:
No, that was Frank Stocky, and I once took a lesson from a renowned Golf Digest instructor. I was young golfer of some promise, a Jewish Johnny Miller with a reverse C finish, 1975, '76. My parents sent me to this camp, and the famous teacher taught me. I came back, naturally because I was a head case, and still into this day, tied in knots, and I had a junior tournament coming up. I sheepishly went to Frank, who had nurtured me for the previous five years, and I said, "Frank, I need you to look at my swing."
Rich Lerner:
We went to the driving range, and he has the unfiltered Camel dangling and the Sansabelt slacks and a cardigan sweater and a great tan, because he used to sit in a lawn chair and sun himself when he wasn't working. I start prattling. "Frank, my spine angle. My swing plane is," I didn't know a swing plane from an airplane. He looked at me, he took a drag from his Camel, and he said, "hit the fucking ball already, will you?" I was released from, excuse my language, I was released from all of my tension, and away we went.
Speaker 3:
Long and straight?
Rich Lerner:
Yes, but of course, I went to the junior tournament down in Philadelphia and came back with my tail between my legs. I might have been a four or five handicap at the time, and shot 91. Frank's way of comforting me was to say, "well, the lump come up, see. You got the apple come Dowdy." He was a legend. If you talk to any of my brothers, any of our countless friends who worked there, Frank Stocky is a legendary figure in our group.
Josh King:
for you and your brothers though, Rich, would you have had it any other way? It's the kind of life that kids dream about. Dad owns a par three pitch and putt driving range, 18 holes of mini golf, the lights on Friday and Saturday night, sounds like perfection to me.
Rich Lerner:
It really was. We had kegs in the back. All right, yeah we did. We had a pin great pinball room with Donkey Kong and Galaga, do you remember those games? Space Invaders, was that another one from back in the day?
Josh King:
Sure.
Rich Lerner:
We had this great pinball room, and for years we had a hotdog stand. If anybody's been through the Lehigh Valley, Yoccoo's Hot Dogs is a famous little joint with great chili dogs. They had a stand for a little while at the driving range at Dorneyville Golf Center. We had a soda machine, naturally, and every now and then seven year old little Johnny would come to the counter and he would say, "I want to get a grape soda, but this came out," he was holding a Budweiser. We were young and full of it, but it was an incredible place to grow up and work. That's where I learned the game, fell in love with the sport, and it got inside me in those years at Dorneyville.
Josh King:
From Dorneyville, you're then in college at Temple when "Caddyshack" debuts on the scene, the year, I think Rich, is 1980, and here's Chevy Chase as club pro Ty Webb at the Bushwood Country Club.
Danny Noonan (Micjael O'Keefe):
I just got to win that caddy tournament. I owe to my folks to get that scholarship.
Ty Webb (Chevy Chase):
What do you want to go to college for Danny?
Danny Noonan (Micjael O'Keefe):
I don't know.
Ty Webb (Chevy Chase):
Let me tell you a little story. I once knew a guy that could have been a great golfer, could have gone pro. All he needed was a little time to practice. He decided to go to college instead. He went for four years, did pretty well. At the end of his four years, it was the last semester, he was kicked out. You know what for? He was night putting, just putting at night, with the 15 year old daughter of the Dean. Know who that guy was Danny?
Danny Noonan (Micjael O'Keefe):
No.
Ty Webb (Chevy Chase):
Take one good guess.
Danny Noonan (Micjael O'Keefe):
Bob Hope? No, that guy was Mitch Comstein, my roommate. He's a good guy.
Josh King:
To what degree were you like Ty Webb? Did you have pro aspirations of your own?
Rich Lerner:
No. Again, I made my bones at a modest Jewish country club in between Allentown and Redding, battling guys like Abe and Sam and Milt. They were eight handicaps who took it back to their hip and scraped it around in 81, until I finally broke through, I think at the age of 20, and won my first club title, at the Berkeley Country Club. My greatest, most thrilling match would've been against the local furrier, Shim Benioff. Shim wore orthopedic shoes, leather that had the lace going up the side. He was a nine, he was a nervous player, got it back ankle high, and then just jumped at the golf ball, hit a lot skulls, but he made it work in the way that guys figure out a way. He had me four down with five to play in the quarter finals of the Berkeley Country Club championship.
Rich Lerner:
I made my move with a bogey at 14, a bogey at 15, winning holes with bogies. Finally at 17, I hit it hard left in the trees. I punched out, he's right down the middle. He needs to bunt it up to this 300 yard par four, make bogey, and he closes me out. He proceeded to blade one that went over the property and landed on the roof of the porn shop which was adjacent to the club, it was an adult bookstore. I ended up beating Shim on the 19th hole, only to lose in the next round to Sam Blinderman, who sold women's undergarments wholesale. Sam was about a foot shorter than me, and I think 40 years older than me at the time. No, I didn't have any professional last inspirations. I won a couple of club championships, I won a local amateur tournament. I played college golf at Lehigh before transferring to Temple, and that was really the extent of it. A lot of good times though in the game.
Josh King:
I was at Madison Square Garden last night Rich, Billy Joel performed to a sold out crowd on the night of his 70th birthday. Let's take a listen to one of his all time hits.
Billy Joel:
Well we're living here in Allentown, and their closing all the factories down. Out in Bethlehem they're killing time, filling out forms, standing in line.
Billy Joel:
Well, our fathers won the second World War, spent their weekends on the Jersey shore. Met our mothers at the USO, asked them to dance, danced with them slow.
Billy Joel:
And we're living here in Allentown.
Josh King:
A lot of old timers like me in the audience of this podcast Rich, in blue collar cities like Allentown and Bethlehem, do former minors, steel workers, those players that you just talked about still get the sticks out on Sunday, or is golf fading in the country's interior? What's the state of the game for duffers like me?
Rich Lerner:
That's a good question. Flat, I guess flat is good these days. I don't have the raw numbers right now. Allentown Municipal I know is doing reasonably well. They sunk a little money into it, that's sort of a great municipal golf course, right in the heart of town. Bethlehem Municipal's hanging in. I played a lot of golf up at what used to be Twin Lakes, Iron Lakes it's called. Look, I've talked about with one of my brothers. Why do we love Allentown as much as we do? The view of Allentown is still not that far from what Billy Joel wrote about. It's changed quite a bit. Bethlehem Steel is a casino now, which I think-
Josh King:
Says all you need to know.
Rich Lerner:
It says all you need to know about America at this point. Why do we love Allentown so much? It's where we're from. It's a town of great corner bars, it's a town that likes wrestling, both freestyle wrestling and professional wrestling. I respect that. It's hardcore in that way. I like Allentown, it's where I'm from. To answer your question-
Josh King:
But there's so many Allentowns around. What is golf between the coasts? And all the municipal links that are in all these cities that have some big private courses on the periphery, but the people like your dad and your brothers who used to play.
Rich Lerner:
I think actually there's room now, and I think the munies are likely going to be okay in the short term. It's hard to predict what's going to happen down the road, when our kids turn 40, 50, will they play golf? I suspect they probably will, because you slow down as you get older, and you're not playing hoops, although I'm still dumb enough to be playing. Golf is a nice alternative. From a cost standpoint, people are not shelling out 30, 40 grand to belong to a club, and that would be a modest club, I guess.
Josh King:
Yeah.
Rich Lerner:
Some are, and you go pay your $60, $70, and you can play your round. I don't think people are playing as much. If you figure, "I want to play once a month or twice a month, I'll pay my $60. If I want to go to a higher-end public course, I'll pay $90, $100, whatever it is." You're not sunk with the costs that are attached to belonging to a private club.
Josh King:
To shift from the public game to the pro game, you've got one of the game's biggest events next week at Bethpage Black. We're going to talk a lot about Tiger a little bit later in the conversation, but if you were to take a snapshot of where the professional tour stands right now, what would you see in the frame?
Rich Lerner:
It's pretty healthy. They just signed a brand new deal with FedEx, $600 million over 10 years, to be the umbrella sponsor, more money. They have the big cat back, which will help on every front, financially foremost. Good young players, I don't think there's one single dynamic star. I think there are some stars, but there's no transcendent figure. I think they all suffer in comparison to Tiger Woods, I thought we were out of it, but we're not. We're back in it, 25 years of one of the greatest, most electric athletes in the history of American sport. You have some good young talent, but nobody that really moves the needle. But again, McIlroy, Jordan Spieth, Ricky Fowler, likable, fresh faced stars, nobody gets in too much trouble. They represent their brands well. Solid, I think it's a solid picture.
Josh King:
Let's talk about the Tiger in the room. When I last saw you, before Xander Schauffele won at East Lake in September, '17.
Rich Lerner:
Yeah.
Josh King:
You were expressing a kind of golfing obituary for Tiger Woods, and you weren't alone in your opinion. Let's listen.
Speaker 9:
Church every fucking week. He was going to fuck up his back and his knees, and it did, but then they're trying to equate it to-
Speaker 10:
Gatorade is now dropping the golfer. This is the third major company to leave Tiger.
Speaker 11:
Prestigious Swiss watchmaker Tag Hauer confirmed it would not renew it's contract.
Speaker 10:
The former number one player in the world has yet to win a PGA tour event since the infidelity scandal erupted in 2009.
Speaker 11:
Do I need to talk about it?
Speaker 9:
Do I need to pile on and start wagging my fucking hypocritical finger at him? My pasty, freckled-
Speaker 12:
But it seems like time isn't the issue here, his body is.
Speaker 13:
Then he was like in legendary, can't touch me status. And then people love, in terms of the story, love the fall from grace.
Speaker 14:
Age is against him. His time table of winning is what's closing.
Josh King:
Rich, from a year after you and I had that conversation, he would win the very tournament at East Lake. What began the turnaround for him?
Rich Lerner:
Healthy. He got healthy. When I say he got healthy, I don't mean he simply got healthy physically, that he had his back repaired, a fourth back surgery. That was a big piece of it. I think he got healthy emotionally, spiritually, psychologically. He had an issue with pain management. When he was pulled over in the middle of the night on a road in south Florida and cited for a DUI, I felt like we were closer to a tragic ending than we were to winning at East Lake. He went and got help, he doesn't talk much about that, that's certainly his choice. It's safe to assume that was number one in the steps that he had to take in order to come back, to get healthy of mind, spirit, and then body. They're linked. If he had tremendous pain and discomfort with his back, he's taking some pain killers, he can't get right, you get hooked, that's a common story in our country.
Rich Lerner:
I think that's what started the comeback, and he has a level of talent that nobody has ever approached in the history of this sport. He has a gift for this game, I think we all agree, and it would've been tragic had that gift vanished, had that gift been wasted. The gift has been restored and recovered, selfishly as a reporter, and I think as fans, we all just wanted to see him do what he can do like no one else, what he did for 10 years. He was the most reliably mind blowing performer for a decade and a little bit that I'd ever seen. He didn't just win, he blew your mind, and it was almost all the time. Restoring the gift for us, and I think personally for Tiger, to be able to show his children who he is at his best, any parent would understand how important that is. Here's who your pop is. Look, this is what I can do. His kids are old enough now, we saw that at The Masters, to appreciate that.
Josh King:
Rich, let's go to Augusta, to before The Masters got underway, to the pre tournament press conference with Tiger Woods, because he had performed well the prior year, and everyone is full of hope and expectation. Nobody knows exactly what's going to happen in the succeeding six days. There he's sitting with the head of the tournament, the backdrop of Amen Corner behind him, all the press in front of him. And here's what he has to say.
Speaker 15:
Last year at this time, you were still in that process of seeing how it was going to go the full year and whatnot, and obviously you went on that latter part of year success. In what ways are your expectations different this week at Augusta than they were last year when you were still feeling things out a little bit?
Tiger Woods:
As I was alluding to earlier, I feel like I can win. I've proven that I can do it. I put myself there with the chance to win the last two major championships of the year, last year. I was right there, I just needed to have a couple of more things go my way and not throw away a couple shots here and there, which I was able to do at East Lake. I feel like I've improved a lot in the past 12, 14 months, but more than anything, I've just proven to myself that I can play at this level again. I've worked my way back into one of the players that can win events.
Josh King:
That was before the first hole Rich. Did you think he could win? How did this story unfold before your eyes?
Rich Lerner:
Yes, I thought he could win, based on his recent performances at the major championships. He held the lead briefly Sunday, early on the backside at the Open Championship at Carnoustie, before Francesca Molinari won. He shut 64 in the final round of the PGA Championship at Bellerive, Brooks Koepka ended up winning. There was enough evidence to suggest that Tiger wasn't bullshitting people, it was right there. Winning The Masters though, because he hadn't won a major in 11 years, it still seemed maybe a bridge too far, it still seemed like it was going to be, I won't to say surprising, but it was going to be epic nonetheless. It was not a foregone conclusion the way it had been 10, 12 years ago. I thought long and hard about it after he won, how had I assessed Tiger through the years, and had I made any mistakes in my judgements of Tiger?
Rich Lerner:
I thought, going forward, I'm going to refrain best as I can from making judgements about great performers. I don't under understand them. They exist on a different plane. I just don't. I could no sooner tell you what makes Tiger tick than I could tell you how Mozart made his music. He's a freak. He's a genius. Whatever Tiger needed to do through the years to get him to that position where he could shoot 65 and win five tournaments, win six in a row, win four majors in a row, who the hell knows?
Rich Lerner:
Typically those people have dark stretches, dark periods in their lives. Tiger had such an unusual upbringing, he was famous when he was what, four, five years old? He was on the Mike Douglas show. He had a father who drove him, who built him for this. We know he had some sort of issues. He had some issues. He had a hole inside of him, as many of us do, and he tried to fill it. What's nice about this new Tiger, and this is not a prerequisite for me, because I enjoyed Tiger when he was a bad ass.
Rich Lerner:
He was a carnivore for a long time. He fed, he needed to eat, and he ate well, and he dined out on Phil Nicholson, Sergio Garcia, and Ernie Els. And now he's snacking on this new generation a little bit right now. The public seems to generally like its athletes to be great, but also to be gracious, and grateful. That's the new Tiger. He's somewhat complicated, as many of these great performers tend to be, but it's great to have him back, and we're not done yet. I thought the story was over, and it's not. It looks like 18, while a long shot, is worth considering, 18 being-
Josh King:
Majors.
Rich Lerner:
18 majors, that's worth considering one more time.
Josh King:
Talking rich about snacking on a new generation, Francesco Molinari is still sort of part of the bridge generation, maybe even Tiger's generation. There can only be one winner at Augusta. Going into the final round, you had another guy like Molinari with a two shot lead, 49 straight holes without a bogey, until he came on number 12 on Sunday. What's the psychology that makes such a consistent player unravel so suddenly?
Rich Lerner:
You say unravel, I would say it was one shot that triggered it. It is the most beguiling little shot in the sport. It's 151, 152 two yards. It's the prettiest little graveyard in golf, is what it is, the 12th hole at Augusta National. Koepka lost it right there, although he bounced back with an Eagle at the very next hole. Finau essentially lost it right there. They made the tactical mistake that so many have made through the years, to go at the flag, although I think Molinari just mishit it. Tiger understands, as Nicholas did, that you take it over the middle left side of that bunker. You don't think about making two, you don't hunt for that flag stick in that moment in time.
Rich Lerner:
And Tiger it appeared had the aura, and even a hint of intimidation back in that one moment, as he waited for the guys to play their third shots after they hit it in Ray's Creek. After they dropped, there's a shot of Tiger standing on the back of the green, near his golf ball, with his arms folded, looking, peering, staring dead eyed at the other guys, who at that moment in time didn't look very strong. You got the sense, ooh, tactical, clinical, hardcore Tiger is back, in that one moment in time, right there at number 12. I love Molinari. I'm a huge fan, I've watched him play a lot of golf, and an amazing transformation the last couple of years.
Josh King:
This younger generation, this new golden age of golf that you and I have talked about in the past, players like Rory McIlroy, Jordan Spieth, Ricky Fowler, the other star players in the clubhouse. On the record, Rich, they've all been complimentary in their admiration of Tiger's come back. In the player's lounge, do you think they grouse that he sucks up too much oxygen in the room, that he's had his time and it's their turn.
Rich Lerner:
That's a good question. I don't think so. I think there's still an element of hero worship. This was their guy. I think they still look at him with a sense of awe. I think those of us in the media who've thought about it, watched this, what I hear is, we'd like to see one of these guys say, when asked, "do you think Tiger will get to Nicholas's record of 18 majors?"
Rich Lerner:
We'd like to hear one of these guys stand up and say, "not over my dead body, if I have anything to say about it." That's good for the drama.
Josh King:
Right.
Rich Lerner:
They tend to be politically correct. "Tiger's great, it's wonderful to have him back." I was on record previously as saying I didn't think they were intimidated, and that's a strong word, but what happened at The Masters gave me pause, just slightly. Augusta is a great golf course for Tiger, he understands it in a way that very few do. Let's see what happens going forward here. If he goes on another run, then we can revisit that.
Josh King:
When we come back with Rich Learner of the Golf Channel, we look back at the U.S. Open, which Rich is covering at Pebble Beach. The great American tournament, its past, present, and future, and the British Open, beyond Royal Portrush. That's right after this.
Speaker 3:
And now a word from Charles Harrington, chairman and CEO of Parsons, NYSE ticker PSN.
Charles Harrington:
We offer technology that digitally enables solutions to the defense, intelligence, and critical security markets. We see a lot of growth and opportunity in cyber and intelligence, and geospatial intelligence as well as solving network problems for critical infrastructure. It feels great for Parsons to be a newly traded public company. Once again, when I joined a company in 19 two, we publicly traded on a New York stock exchange and here we are, 35 years later, publicly traded once again,
Josh King:
Back now with my friend Rich Lerner of the Golf Channel. Before the break, our conversation spanned from Dorneyville Golf Center in Allentown to The Masters at Augusta. Rich, what's your method of preparation and study before you arrive on site to cover a golf tournament?
Rich Lerner:
We have a great research unit at the Golf Channel. They provide us with spiral bound books, and everything from golf course history to location, where we are 15 miles from the Atlantic ocean, whatever it may be, 17 miles from downtown Manhattan. A history of the golf course, who won there. We pour ourselves into that research packet. Oftentimes I'll talk to the professional at the club, look back at my old files from a previous year. If we've been at this golf course before I'll revisit those notes, Pebble Beach, I've got plenty of stuff.
Rich Lerner:
I was just at Pebble Beach, so I was able to get a more current sense of where the golf course is. I was doing a feature story that'll air the week of the U.S. Open, it was a hard hitting for feature on Lefty and Charlie, the two border colleagues that belong to the superintendent, Jack Holt out there.
Josh King:
Hard hitting.
Rich Lerner:
Yes. As I asked the piercing and penetrating questions of the subjects, who's a good girl? Should we have a rub? Why don't we have a rub right now? It's actually one of the really enjoyable stories I've had a chance to report. I can't wait to put it together and write it.
Josh King:
Your essays and your pieces that are done outside of play by play and "Live From," your ability to go back and be a real storyteller has to be one of a great passion for you.
Rich Lerner:
It is. It occupies so many legs on so many trips, and it doesn't matter where I'm at, I love to sink myself into those little pieces. That's the other part of the preparation, I'll sit many times and just think, no books, no research manuals. I'll just try to think, and pull out a legal pad, or my phone, you can do it on your phone. What do I feel is the first question I ask, what do I feel about this point in time in golf? Where are we in our sport? What do I think? What do I know? Those three questions, and I'll spray thoughts and ideas, and then I'll cobble something together. I typically write a couple of teases to get "Live From" started and get people excited, and make them feel something. I'll write an essay that airs on Wednesday night, try to capture some sort of idea, feeling, where we are in the sport, and then go from there. Typically I'll have one meatier five, six minute feature that we run during those major championship weeks.
Josh King:
What's your trick to surviving the grind of this life, the practice rounds, four rounds of play, and then packing up and staying on the road for weeks on end?
Rich Lerner:
How do I survive? You have to get in a gym once in a while. You run hard late at night, you get run over early in the morning. When I first started, we did a couple of hours a day, whatever it was. Now, if I'm doing a live event, sometimes telecasts are five, six hours. It can be a grind, but then again, we're just talking about golf. Somebody said to me the other day, "Rich," detailing my travel schedule, they said, "Rich, you must have a hard job." And I said, "let's consider that for a moment. Here's what I do: Thursday through Sunday I sit in a box, I watch a television screen, and I say, "let's go to 15, let's go to 17. Now to four, back to seven. Nine, 12, 18."
Rich Lerner:
I'm a glorified bingo announcer, is really what I am. I will be calling action in the Sunrise Senior Center in Helendale, Florida in five years. We're lucky to do what we do, but yes, anybody who's been on the road, whatever your business is, you know you have to take care. You have to try to eat reasonably well, because it's wine and burgers and steaks every night if you want it. You have to be careful.
Josh King:
Talking about the Helendale Senior Center in Sunrise, Florida, even when you're not on the road, you're still deeply immersed in the game. Earlier this week, you were in Ocala helping support McKenzie's Moment, for the Ronald McDonald's charities in north central Florida. You tweet that it's the beauty of golf, made four new friends. Rich, five hours out on the links is still one of the best ways to really connect with other people.
Rich Lerner:
There's no doubt in my mind. I've not encountered any other experience, and granted, I'm in the sport. I'm sure there are other things you can do to really connect with people, but it is such a good way to do it. You ride along with people, you talk to them-
Josh King:
You learn these stories.
Rich Lerner:
You learn their stories, you have kids. The people I played with were brothers from Indiana, the Puckett boys, two of eight. I got into their story. Their father made no more than a hundred bucks a week, and yet the one guy, Frankie, ended up in the newspaper business, and did very well, his brother's an educator. It was a snapshot of America, and I'm inquisitive. It's like being on a talk show, if you're in a round of golf with me. I tend to ask questions, but also I love to do shtick, and I love to tell stories, and you can cut it loose out on a golf course.
Josh King:
Now we come to the U.S. Open, first played in 1895, 124 years ago. One of the most famous opens surely was played in my backyard, at the Country Club in Brookline in 1913, let's have a listen.
Speaker 18:
It was a house in which a boy had grown up, and from his second floor bedroom window he could see the course, where as a caddy he had learned the sport, and the honor of the game.
Speaker 18:
Francis Ouimet, 20 years old, an amateur, a salesman at a sporting goods store, had no chance against the two professionals, of course. But he was too young, or maybe too innocent, to know it. He was the unlikeliest of challengers. That was one reason he ended up with a 10 year old boy as his caddy, but through four rounds, Eddie Lowry's faith never wavered. He believed, and steady Francis hit the shots. On the morning of the playoff, Ouimet's friends begged him to take an older, more experienced caddy. But he stayed loyal to the boy, and they won, together in the rain, 6,000 people turning the course to mud as first Ray fell away at 15, then Vardon at 17, and only Ouimet was left.
Josh King:
Rich, so many years-
Rich Lerner:
Gives me chills.
Josh King:
So many highlights.
Rich Lerner:
That's a good one.
Josh King:
What are your favorite U.S. Open moments?
Rich Lerner:
Wow.
Josh King:
You weren't at 1913, I assume.
Rich Lerner:
I would've loved to have written the 1913 U.S. Open, that's one of the great upsets of the last century in any sport, is Francis Ouimet, and did a lot to spark the popularity of golf. Favorite U.S. Opens, okay. In my lifetime, Tiger Woods in 2000 at Pebble Beach, never in the history of golf, I can safely say that, and maybe, just throw this out there, maybe in any sport, has the gap between the best in that sport and everybody else been wider than it was at that moment in time, and for that stretch of four, five, six, seven years, somewhere in that neighborhood. Tiger Woods won by 15 shots. Tom Watson calls it the greatest performance in the history of this sport. Tiger Woods was standing on the cliffs above Stillwater Cove of the Monterey Peninsula, and everyone else, Mickelson and Garcia and Els, they were in a rowboat near Australia.
Rich Lerner:
It wasn't close, and it stayed that way for a pretty long time. 2008, we're back to Tiger, Tory Pines. That was probably his most mythic major championship win, because he beat an army on one leg. What can't he do? We know now, in retrospect, that was a turning point. A year and change later, his life would change, and the sport would change when the scandal hit. 2013, at Marion, sort of in my backyard, it was outside of Philadelphia, that was Mickelson's sixth U.S. Open runner-up. All the history at Marion, with Bobby Jones having won there in his grand slam year of 1930, dramatic, Justin Rose, ultimately winning. I may be missing some, U.S. Opens have unfortunately been a series of train wrecks in recent years, unfortunately.
Josh King:
We talked a lot about The Masters in Augusta, which is fundamentally the same course, albeit tweaked and adjusted year to year. The British Open is often these exotic links courses. The U.S. Open runs the gamut all over the country. For the average listener, what should they be looking at, at Pebble Beach? The way the greens are manicured, the way the roughs are cut, and other aspects that make a U.S. Open different from other tournaments?
Rich Lerner:
Well, the U.S. Open in the earlier years was golf's most stringent test. It was a climb up Mount Everest. It was brutal. It was a thorough examination, that was the phrase we always heard. It's a thorough examination, as if you're going to your proctologist, and it wasn't even that pleasant. You'd rather go to your proctologist than play Winged Foot in 1974, what they call the massacre at Winged Foot. The U.S. Open always wanted to test you psychologically as much as anything, can you withstand pain and punishment?
Rich Lerner:
Then, 10 to 15 years ago, they began to change their philosophy just a little bit. They wanted to see players hit a greater variety of shots. They gave you a graduated rough, and they widened out the fairways a little bit, because today's players, with the modern equipment, are not quite as straight, I don't need to get into the reasons why here, it would take too much time.
Rich Lerner:
Pebble Beach, small greens, about as small as you can get. The fairways will be pinched in, they will be quite narrow. They're going to test the players on their accuracy. You're going to have to hit the ball straight. It's not a long golf course, it's a tactical golf course. I think it does set up well for someone like Tiger Woods. Tiger won't have to hit his driver all that much at Pebble Beach, he can hit that stinger three wood or a low iron and put the ball in play. Once you are in play, if you're in the right spot, then it becomes a test of your iron play. There is no better iron player in the world right now than Tiger Woods. Again, the greens are so small, eight, nine, and 10, maybe the greatest three hole stretch, at least for raw, drop dead beauty, in the world, right along the water.
Rich Lerner:
Number seven is about as cool a par three as you'll ever see. You just hit a little sand wedge that kisses the clouds. Now, if the winds come in, guys have hit six iron in, it's 106, 107, 110 yards, wherever they put the tee box. Six is a great par five up the hill, that's where Tiger hit a famous shot in 2000, the seven iron out of the thick rough that at the time, it felt like no one else could hit. Pebble is, I don't love to use the word iconic, but it's iconic. When you think about beautiful golf courses, you think immediately of Pebble Beach.
Josh King:
On the greens themselves, that clip that we played from 1913, 10 year old Eddie Lowry, Eddie wouldn't quit on Francis Ouimet, and Ouimet wouldn't quit on Eddie. Tiger's caddy at Augusta was Joe LaCava. What's the relationship between the modern day champion and the modern day champion's caddy?
Rich Lerner:
The caddy has become a much more professionalized job. It pays well. The demands are greater, with the increase in pay and the higher purses now. Caddies are out there with their books, charting every last yard of a golf course. How far is it to the front of that bunker? What's the carry? What's the number? Where is the wind? They have to have every last bit of information, their players demand it. I do think at times the caddies are given too much credit. I think we've seen evidence that while they're not easily replaceable, and I think it varies from player to player, some guys are more reliant than others on their particular caddy. I do think we in the media tend to overstate their value. I think it's about comfort level. I think Joey LaCava is a pro's pro in the ranks of the caddy.
Rich Lerner:
There's some other guys of that ilk, a Jimmy Johnson. They've been out there a long time, they know what they're doing. They know the golf courses, they know how to handle, you ask a caddy, he'll say, "my man played well today." It's sort of an odd bit, but they say, "my man played well today. He's hitting it well." Could Tiger win with you as his caddy? I suspect he probably could. While I say that, I don't mean to minimize how good Joe LaCava is at his job. Most of these guys are very good at their jobs, and I don't think it's as easy as maybe it appears to be. You do have to put in the work, you do have to know your craft, and you have to have it all together nowadays.
Josh King:
One month from now, no matter how things turn out at Pebble Beach, the action shifts across the pond to Northern Ireland for The Open Championships. Royal Portrush will be home to the tournament for the first time since 1951, the first time it's been held outside of Scotland or England since then, when Max Faulkner won the Claret Jug.
Speaker 19:
The Open Golf Championship, fought out at Royal Portrush, county Antrim, ended in a British win. Max Faulkner, 34 year old unattached professional, was unperturbed by the weather or the strong competition he was up against. It's important that he backed himself to win, and win he certainly did, with an aggregate of 285. Here's his last putt.
Speaker 19:
Two strokes better than Cerda of Argentina, Faulkner's was a fine performance, well worthy of trophy and congratulations.
Josh King:
Rich, 2018, nothing like 1951, Francesco Molinari is the defending champion. Can he stay steady through four rounds, or will hometown boy Rory McIlroy be poised to make a strong run? Set up the British for us, even a month hence.
Rich Lerner:
All eyes will be on Rory. Northern Ireland, an exotic locale, Royal Portrush. I think a lot of golfers in the audience will have been there. A special place, and given the turmoil in Northern Ireland through the years, and the difficulties, challenges of bringing this championship to Portrush, there's a tremendous amount of excitement behind this particular Open.
Rich Lerner:
Rory will be front and center, because he's from Northern Ireland. It was Graham McDowell who actually kicked off this run of Northern Irish success, at the 2010 U.S. Open, oddly enough at Pebble Beach, and then came Darren Clark winning the 2011 Open, and obviously Rory McIlroy, with his a four major championships. Portrush, a wonderful golf course, it's linksy, it feels different, it looks different. This year, with that move to Northern Ireland and that added political backdrop, that historical backdrop, this will be one worth watching for sure.
Josh King:
You and I got to know each other amid the conclusion of the 2017 season, and the annual excitement around the FedEx Cup. Has the FedEx Cup's mission to stabilize interest in golf amid the arrival of pro and college football seasons endured?
Rich Lerner:
It's better than it used to be. It's not at the level of the major championships or the Player's or the Ryder Cup, but typically, what used to happen before the FedEx Cup arrived, before the playoffs came into existence was, once the PGA Championship, which had been the last major, once that was finished, fans left the sport in droves, in terms of watching it on television or consuming it however they were, and they started watching football. Along comes FedEx and the playoffs, and what they found is that they're not getting bang for their buck with the playoffs in September, when people are really hyped and super excited for the start of football season, college and pro. It's a behemoth, as you know, you can't beat them in the ratings.
Rich Lerner:
What's happened in the last couple of years is, FedEx made a substantial commitment to the PGA tour, my understanding is $600 million over 10 years. Enormous prize money now, bonuses of up to $15 million for the winner, and they have a Wyndham rewards for the regular season. We've been instructed by the tour, pushed, nudged, to begin to focus more on FedEx in our coverage, in our weekly broadcast, versus the official world golf ranking. You'll hear it come out, you'll say, "Dustin Johnson, number two in the current FedEx Cup standings, he's off to a great start with hiss two wins," versus, "Dustin Johnson, number one in the world."
Josh King:
FedEx is paying for that.
Rich Lerner:
Bingo. They want as many impressions as they can get. It's fascinating, because I understand where the tour's coming from, I really do. As a business, they're tired of the broadcasters pushing these other properties, which they don't own, during their telecast. If it's the AT&T Byron Nelson Championship, that's a regular PGA tour stop. If the announcers go in and are only talking about the PGA Championship coming up, or the world rankings, or the Ryder Cup, or the British Open, The Open, the tour says, "wait a minute. This is our product right now. This is our property. We want you pushing the FedEx Cup."
Rich Lerner:
Look at it this way. The five most valuable properties in the game typically have been the four majors, Masters, PGA Championship, U.S. Open, and The Open, and the Ryder Cup. The PGA tour doesn't own a single one of those entities, not one.
Rich Lerner:
And yet, who's responsible for the riches that come pouring in at every one of those events? Their talent, and they've had it. They've had it. That's why they introduced the Player's. That's why they pushed that, that's their flagship event. That's why they introduced the President's Cup. They own it. Now, they want the FedEx Cup pushed, and that's why the PGA Championship moved to May. The PGA tour wanted those dominoes to fall. They wanted the month of August, they wanted their FedEx Cup playoffs to be away from NFL football. For that to happen, the PGA of America had to move.
Josh King:
We lost Arnold Palmer in 2016, at the age of 87. Gary Player is now 83, Jack Nicholas is 79. I want to hear a little bit of admiration for what Arnie represented during his life.
Speaker 20:
He came along at a time when, in the cultural zeitgeist of America, the setting was right. Golf was a sleepy country club game, and then along comes this muscular, tilting, Pennsylvanian with a cork screw swing and a handsome grimace, and suddenly he was an irresistible figure.
Jim McKay:
Arnold Daniel Palmer, the classic American sports icon, was a man of the people.
Speaker 23:
Arnold was another Walter Hagen. He smoked cigarettes, he'd have a whiskey, and he smashed the ball all over the place. He holed long putts, he was daring do.
Josh King:
As we wrap up our conversation Rich, before the U.S. Open gets underway at Pebble Beach, palmer was the son of a steel worker turned golf pro from Pennsylvania. Talk to us about the giants of the game, and whether the decades ahead will crown and embrace a new giant to carry on the tradition that people like Arnie, Jack, and Gary established.
Rich Lerner:
I think every generation has its giants. We love our myths, we love our heroes. That's why you do what you do, and that's why I'm in business, to put the halo around whomever is in our midst at that time. Yeah, there will be new heroes, and they'll reveal themselves in due time, and they'll have gone through hardships somewhere along the line, you would think. Arnold was from a different era, we know that. Arnold was from the "Mad Men," 1960s, brill cream and a little dab will do you. I always say about Arnold, he was known as the king, he didn't particularly like that moniker. I always felt he was the best friend the game has ever known, and what today's players and future generations could learn from Arnold, best as they can, it is a different time, with social media and "got you" journalism at times, and people looking to take you down in a way that I don't think Arnold ever encountered in the sixties and the seventies.
Rich Lerner:
What they could learn from Arnold is to try to make a connection with people, and to best as you can enjoy the people. That was Arnold's gift, he loved to be Arnold Palmer. He loved to be out with the people, to his dying day, loved it. I've not seen that. Modern fame is uncomfortable. I think McIlroy struggled with it. Tiger obviously struggled with it. I think Jordan Spieth is struggling with a little bit. Constantly being scrutinized, analyzed, asked to expound on the state of your game, your state of mind, people looking at your every move. Arnold had no problem with it. He always looked you in the eye, and he was signing 30 autographs. There was always a moment, he would pause, he looked those people in the eye as if he knew you or met your uncle, or something.
Rich Lerner:
He had that remarkable gift to make a connection, and take the time, famously writing thank you letters, congratulatory letters after people won. If it's not natural for someone, then you're not going to be able to do that. That's a good lesson, try to make that connection. Try to enjoy the ride. I think Adam silver, we're veering a little bit here, Adam silver touched on it, this idea that he felt like today's players were lonely-
Josh King:
The commissioner of basketball.
Rich Lerner:
The commissioner basketball, were isolated. I guess the larger point is that it is a much different time for the athletes, and can they make a connection, and then reap those benefits? That would a question worth pondering as we move through the next decade or so.
Josh King:
On that note Richard, we'll let you get back in your Uber and head out to the course to do what you do so well. Follow Rich Lerner on Twitter, and that's at NYSE ticker symbol TWTR, @RichLernerGC. And of course, wherever the little white ball is getting smacked down the fairway as covered by the Golf Channel. Good luck at Pebble Beach, Royal Portrush, and wherever the tour takes you. Thanks for joining us inside the ICE House.
Rich Lerner:
Josh, this was a real pleasure.
Josh King:
That's our conversation for this week. Our guest was the Golf Channel's Rich Lerner. If you like what you heard, please rate us on iTunes, so other folks know where to find us, and if you'd get a comment or question, you'd like one of our experts to tackle on a future show, email us @icehouseattheice.com, or tweet at us @icehousepodcast. Our show was produced by Pete Ash, with production assistance from Ken Abel and Ian Wolf. I'm Josh King, your host, signing off from the library of the New York Stock Exchange. Thanks for listening, talk to you next week.
Speaker 1:
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