Speaker 1:
Welcome to ETF Central, recorded here at the New York Stock Exchange, the home of ETFs. We're diving deep with the people shaping the space, the technology's driving innovation, and the stories behind the tickers. Whether you're an investor, issuer, or industry insider, welcome home.
Bilal Little:
Welcome to another edition of ETF Central. My name is Bilal Little and I'm really excited about today's guest. We have Joyee Yang. She's a content creator as well as financial educator for Gen Z.
She's phenomenal because she has 300,000 followers across all of her social platforms. And she's here to tell us a little bit about her investing journey, as well as how she's researching and investing in ETFs. So stay tuned, really excited. Thank you for joining, Joyee, how you doing?
Joyee Yang:
Thank you so much for having me.
Bilal Little:
Yeah, excited to have you.
Joyee Yang:
This is so exciting.
Bilal Little:
How was your trip in?
Joyee Yang:
Very good. I just flew in this morning.
Bilal Little:
Okay.
Joyee Yang:
Smooth ride.
Bilal Little:
First time at the Exchange?
Joyee Yang:
First time ever at the Exchange, even on the street, really.
Bilal Little:
I love it. I love it. There's a magical feeling every time. And you're here actually on a really good day.
Joyee Yang:
Yeah.
Bilal Little:
IPO day.
Joyee Yang:
Yes. IPO, StubHub.
Bilal Little:
Yeah, absolutely.
Joyee Yang:
Everyone's going crazy.
Bilal Little:
I love it. I love it. Look, today, I really think it's important that we get a better sense of not only the retail investor, but how people start their journey in investing. So for those of you that don't know you, tell people a little bit about Joyee Yang and how she got her start in investing.
Joyee Yang:
Yeah. Well, I was actually kicked out of my parents' house at 19. And so 19-year-old Joyee was Googling how to make money online, and dividend stocks came up. And so I invested maybe a 100 or $200 into Fortis and got a dividend of 69 cents when I woke up the next morning.
And I thought I had escaped the Matrix. I was like, "Holy crap, making money while you sleep is actually true." And so I was just hooked from that point. I was doing so much research on dividend stocks, how to optimize my portfolio. But also how to stay safe as well and manage risk because I am a 19-year-old living out on her own. So yeah.
Bilal Little:
Okay. So what were you doing to actually make money to start your investment journey?
Joyee Yang:
A good question. I actually had three jobs. So from 8:00 in the morning to 5:00 to 5:30, I worked as a court clerk in Ontario. So I was in law for a bit. And then from 5:00 to 12:00 AM I was actually a server.
Bilal Little:
Wow.
Joyee Yang:
Yes, I was a server. That was my favorite job ever. And then on the weekends, I would be a freelance bartender. So whenever someone had events in my area, I would bartend just to make some extra cash. I lived on my government salary and then invested the rest of the money from serving and bartending into the stock market.
Bilal Little:
I love it. I love it. So you started with dividends, and that was like, "Okay, how do I make mailbox money?" And then how did you transition and say, "You know what, these ETF things are real." When did you first identify that ETFs were important to you?
Joyee Yang:
Well, yeah, like I said, I was planning to manage risk. I was super risk averse, first of all. I didn't want to lose a single dollar because I work 15-hour days and money means a lot to me.
Bilal Little:
Yeah, absolutely.
Joyee Yang:
So I mean, I was trying to make as much money as possible and basically not lose any money. So yeah, I watched a lot of YouTube videos. I used Google, I used YouTube, and then watched some finance influencers on YouTube as well. And they all said instead of just buying individual stocks where you're putting all of your eggs in one basket, just buy an ETF. Where yeah, it's just a basket of stocks all in one.
Bilal Little:
And you get the broad diversification.
Joyee Yang:
Exactly.
Bilal Little:
So look, let's take a step back before we dive into some of the investment stuff. And tell, I would say, tell me a little bit more about your demographic, because you're 27 now, right?
Joyee Yang:
Yes.
Bilal Little:
Tell me a little bit more about your demographic and how you're trying to educate people. Because to your point, you said, "Okay, I'm going to YouTube to find the information."
For you, and I would say probably a lot of your peers, a lot of people go to YouTube to find information opposed to going to traditional financial asset managers who actually produce a lot of content. It seems like you feel more comfortable and confident going to content creators that simplify the message. Is that fair to say?
Joyee Yang:
That is. Yeah, that is. You hit the-
Bilal Little:
Nail on the head.
Joyee Yang:
... nail on the head. Yeah. Well, finance and advisors in my bank, I actually opened my first investment account at one of the big banks. And they didn't really tell me anything. They didn't even tell me that I needed to invest. And so my perception of financial advisors were kind of tarnished since I was 18.
Bilal Little:
Oh, wow.
Joyee Yang:
And so I-
Bilal Little:
Well, hold on, lean into that. Why was it tarnished?
Joyee Yang:
Well, I just never got any information about investing. And usually when I do talk to the advisors, they do sell mutual funds, which has high management fees. And I just thought, 19-year-old Joyee, thought I could do it better. And so I just did all the research myself. And then found out that some financial advisors do want to sell you products where they could make the most money out of you.
Bilal Little:
And so you felt more comfortable looking to content creators to build trust and explaining-
Joyee Yang:
Exactly, so YouTube.
Bilal Little:
... what the products were? Or? Yeah.
Joyee Yang:
Exactly. So YouTube videos are free. I couldn't even afford, I mean like $100 session with a financial advisor. So YouTube was free. And a lot of the YouTubers that I watch actually was bold enough to share their portfolios online. And so that transparency really, it just had the energy of drawing me in and really trusting them. So yeah.
Bilal Little:
So you built trust, you built transparency. There's a level of authenticity there. What other sort of resources did you use to build your financial foundation? So you listed YouTube. Where else were you going to look for information? Obviously Google, but where else?
Joyee Yang:
Yeah. Yeah, definitely Google, Yahoo Finance. I actually have the CNBC app and there was Twitter back then. That was what it was called, Twitter. And then, yeah, there's a lot of new, I guess there are a lot of new research platforms now. Blossom is one of them, Blossom Social.
And I checked out ETF Central. The comparison that you guys have on there is really good. And so yeah, you just do a lot of research in the beginning before you purchase any ETFs. And then once you did the research, you're kind of locked in for hopefully 15, 20 years.
Bilal Little:
Yeah.
Joyee Yang:
Yeah.
Bilal Little:
Now talk a little bit about your peers that are doing their own research. What are you guys talking about? How are you guys sharing information to grow together and almost build this communal experience?
Joyee Yang:
Yeah. Well, honestly, whenever I buy and sell a stock, it's on Blossom. And I also make videos on it. So when you say peers, I mean, I don't know. I just have one-on-ones with my friends, but my peers are other finance influencers.
But we share it on Blossom, we make videos on it. I'm always finding out new ETFs or new stocks that are just IPO-ing from my finance influencer friends.
Bilal Little:
What would you say the mix of your portfolio holdings are between individual stocks and ETFs?
Joyee Yang:
Well, I am 27, so still kind of young.
Bilal Little:
Yeah, it's fine.
Joyee Yang:
I think right now it's 50/50. Yeah, 50% in ETFs and then the other in individual stocks.
Bilal Little:
Where would you say your risk tolerance is today? If we scale one to 10, 10 being the riskiest?
Joyee Yang:
I think six or seven.
Bilal Little:
Okay. Six or seven.
Joyee Yang:
Six or seven. The reason why it's six or seven is because when I was younger, I made a mistake of being too risk-averse. And so I saved all of my money in cash in envelopes because I was serving. So in envelopes and I didn't even put it in a high-interest savings account.
I didn't even put it in a broad market ETF. I was just that risk-averse. And so the more I learned about investing, the more risk I'm willing to take. The more I understand a concept like the stock market-
Bilal Little:
Yeah, absolutely.
Joyee Yang:
Yeah. The more money I'm willing to put in.
Bilal Little:
I tell everyone, especially if they start investing early, it's like time in the market's, not trying to time the markets. And understand risk isn't bad or good, it just is. And you have to understand it's inherent to investing. So no problem with that. I totally understand it.
So look, I want to switch gears a little bit and get a sense of right now, how are your conversations going with your friends and your peers? Because you've built a pretty significant following yourself. So you went from following and recording or researching videos on YouTube to now creating your own.
And you're getting some really good traction. So across your social platforms, you got 300,000 followers of people looking to you as now on the financial expert and/or educator. How has that transition been for you?
Joyee Yang:
I realized that when I was watching YouTube videos, it was educating me. But nowadays, when I make YouTube videos, I'm not like a therapist, but I am managing people's psychology when it comes to investing.
Because there's fear, there's greed, et cetera in the market. And so I try to educate as much as I can, but I think my number one priority is letting people know that stock market crashes happen. Your portfolio will go up and down a lot.
And so yeah, I created a lot of videos telling people my strategy, which is dollar cost averaging. Which takes the mental part out of investing and they seem to appreciate that.
Bilal Little:
So what would you say your number one lesson or money lesson is? Is it dollar cost averaging to remove the emotional aspect of investing?
Joyee Yang:
Yes, exactly. Yeah, dollar cost averaging and automating your investments for sure. It's just like as soon as your paycheck comes in, you're putting away 20, 30, 40% maybe if you're still living at home with your parents maybe. And then just letting it work in the background for you. I try not to check my portfolio too much.
Bilal Little:
That's because of the emotional rush that you get, right?
Joyee Yang:
Exactly. Exactly. And you know what? For beginner investors, which is a lot of my audience, they will check the stock market basically 18 times a day. And they would ask me, "Should I sell this or should I sell that?" And I tell them, when I first invested in the stock market at 19, I didn't sell any stocks until I bought a condo at 23. So there's four years of me staying calm, through the pandemic as well. So yeah.
Bilal Little:
No, I get it. I get it. So because you have this new audience, what are they gravitating towards more? Is it ETFs, is it stocks? Where do you see the most engagement from the content that you create?
Joyee Yang:
Yeah, I think it's very, very dynamic. I mean, with my audience being such beginner investors, they might only get into ETFs because they found me first on social media. Or they're only starting to invest now because they heard about Bitcoin. Or they heard a friend that invested in this one company, that 100X'd or something.
And so there's a lot of people that come from different backgrounds, I guess, and different ways how they got introduced to the stock market or investing. And so they're kind of all over the place. But a lot of people, especially Gen Zs and younger, is in the mindset of how do I make money and how do I make it fast? So they're very prone to taking on risk nowadays.
Bilal Little:
What tools do you think, what tools would you like to see more of? Right now one of the things, I'm going to give you some kind of context here. My biggest challenge with the industry has been we don't speak in the context of a portfolio. We talk about individual positions like, "Hey, buy this or buy that. Or sell this or buy that, or whatever it is." We don't actually give people the context.
Most people have never built a portfolio in their life, so they don't understand standard deviation or true aspects of diversification. Meaning when something zigs, you need something to zag. What tools would help your investor base in this environment today, if you said there's one thing that we need more of?
Joyee Yang:
Honestly, if I can build an app or website where I direct all the traffic on this website. Is maybe an online kind of automated financial advisor that's free. Where you could put in your age, and you put in how much money you can put away. What your goals are, your time horizon, et cetera.
And maybe have points that they can research. So not, "Hey, open this account and invest this much." It's do some research in this and do some research in that and kind of still build it out yourself. You kind of want to teach a man to fish instead of giving a man a fish, you know what I mean?
Bilal Little:
Yeah, absolutely.
Joyee Yang:
Yeah. So yeah, if there's a website like that somewhere, I think it'll be really helpful to my audience.
Bilal Little:
Okay. So I like this. Now I want to go to what content do you envision yourself creating related to that? Would you say, "I'm going to create videos on 529 plans for people who want to manage money for their children. I'm going to create balanced portfolios for people who want better understand diversification. I want to create videos on risk and what ways to measure risk in a portfolio or a position." What videos do you envision yourself creating if you had your crystal ball?
Joyee Yang:
Well, I would create a course where I talk about all of that. I talk about what investment vehicles are riskiest and put it on a spectrum maybe. Where they could fully visualize, if I have this much money, how much am I going to allocate towards a high yield savings account or an individual stock or an ETF?
Yeah, I think in the future, I just want to be fully transparent with financial literacy. No gatekeeping, no explaining things to a beginner as if they understand literacy at first. Because when I was watching YouTube videos when I was 19, even a 20-minute video took me an hour to watch because I had to pause every five minutes, go into Google and search up what is a dividend? What is a capital gain? What is a PO showing?
Bilal Little:
Yeah.
Joyee Yang:
When I talk to my audience, I really try to talk to the 19-year-old version of myself.
Bilal Little:
Okay. I like that.
Joyee Yang:
Yeah.
Bilal Little:
So now let me switch gears a little bit because you work with asset managers in Canada today.
Joyee Yang:
ETF providers, yeah.
Bilal Little:
ETF providers. And when you're creating content with some of those ETF providers, what are they asking you to communicate about their product? Or how are they asking you to position their strategies?
Joyee Yang:
Yeah. Well, before I work with any ETF providers, I dive into what you guys are doing, how this will benefit someone. Or who would buy these ETFs or I guess stocks now. And yeah, they tell me that they usually work with me when they're just releasing new products and they want people to kind of know that it's there. So when people are-
Bilal Little:
So awareness.
Joyee Yang:
Exactly. Awareness, eyeballs on the ETF. When people are looking for monthly income, there are covered call ETFs that the companies will ask me to present to my audience. And my audience is 18 to 55, and so I have-
Bilal Little:
Men or women?
Joyee Yang:
It's 50/50.
Bilal Little:
Okay.
Joyee Yang:
Yeah, actually I think more women.
Bilal Little:
Okay.
Joyee Yang:
More women, like 60/40. But it's just to get awareness on the ETFs that they've just launched or whatever.
Bilal Little:
And how many asset managers have you worked with in the past?
Joyee Yang:
I think three or four.
Bilal Little:
Okay.
Joyee Yang:
Yeah.
Bilal Little:
And are they mostly equity positions? Are they crypto? What are they?
Joyee Yang:
They're mostly covered calls.
Bilal Little:
Okay, so income?
Joyee Yang:
Income-focused. Yeah.
Bilal Little:
Okay. I have to ask. Given your audience, what's the engagement like on crypto ETFs?
Joyee Yang:
Crypto ETFs I have not done too much on because I've just started getting into crypto very recently. Crypto was a speculative thing overall.
Bilal Little:
Rightfully so.
Joyee Yang:
Even it's not stock, it's just a thing. And so I didn't understand anything about it, and I wouldn't invest too much money in something I don't understand. But yeah, my audience now, with all the evidence that it's going to become the next big thing. Like US, I think was putting some crypto in their pension or trust fund. When those news comes out, I do get a lot of DMs.
Bilal Little:
The institutional adoption of crypto is changing the entire landscape. And the more that you see that, I think you also build trust because with the retail public, it seems as though when a large institution has done their due diligence, then it might be appropriate for me to really pay attention to this.
Joyee Yang:
Exactly.
Bilal Little:
They have more resources, they have more insight. So now you get the investor public that follows behind and that's okay. That's call it a natural adoption curve once you see that adoption from the institutions.
Joyee Yang:
Exactly. That's where I get my trust from too. You guys are your research and your investing in this. I might research myself and make sure that it's a right investment for me.
Because as someone who's not married, doesn't have kids, rent isn't that high, I could risk a little bit more in that space. But if you have kids, you have a mortgage, car payments, et cetera, and not too much money to play around with, I would just do my own research.
Bilal Little:
Okay.
Joyee Yang:
Just do more research.
Bilal Little:
So I like this. I want to get, as we sort of come to wrap this up, a little bit about how you want people to think about Joyee and where she's going as this content creator and investor. Because right now you're building your own audience, you're building your own platform. You want to see more from the industry around good education. How do you see yourself fitting into the context of tying big institutional news to a nascent retail audience?
Joyee Yang:
Where I want my content to go is if a person wants to start investing, they start with me. They start with my content. I want to give them enough information where if they watch podcasts as sophisticated as yours, they would understand what you're talking about. Because it really is like another language.
Bilal Little:
Yeah, absolutely.
Joyee Yang:
So that is where I see myself going. I would love to just get more eyeballs on my content. I would love to change the minds of people who think investing is a scam and convert them into thinking investing is going to help you in the future.
Bilal Little:
Yeah, absolutely. What can we be doing as an industry, meaning folks in my seat, to actually collaborate, work with you guys, but also build resources and content that would be valuable to you?
Joyee Yang:
I think the podcast we're doing now is valuable. I think that anyone who's a beginner investor tunes into this would understand what we're talking about, can understand where I'm coming from, can relate to my situation. And so, yeah, the more, I guess, people you talk to who can communicate the finance world in layman terms.
Bilal Little:
Yeah. Simplify the message. Yeah.
Joyee Yang:
I think that would be very, very helpful.
Bilal Little:
Okay.
Joyee Yang:
Yeah.
Bilal Little:
All right. I love it. Joyee, any questions for me?
Joyee Yang:
No. Thanks for having me.
Bilal Little:
Thank you for coming.
Joyee Yang:
That was so fun.
Speaker 1:
That's a wrap for today's conversation, but the ETF discussion doesn't stop here. For more insights, deep dives, and voices shaping the market, stay connected on ETFcentral.com. From the New York Stock Exchange, we'll see you next time.
Information contained in this podcast was obtained in part from publicly available sources and not independently verified. Neither ICE nor its affiliates make any representations or warranties, expressed or implied, as to the or completeness of the information, and do not sponsor, approve, or endorse any of the content herein, all of which is presented solely for informational and educational purposes.
Nothing herein constitutes an offer to sell, a solicitation of offer to buy any security, or a recommendation of any security or trading practice. Some portions of the preceding conversation may have been edited for the purpose of length or clarity.
