Lance Glinn:
From Lake Las Vegas here in Nevada, welcome in to another episode of the Inside the ICE House Podcast. Today's guest is Mike Tannenbaum, former NFL executive and the founder of The 33rd Team. Mike, thanks so much for joining us Inside the ICE House.
Mike Tannenbaum:
Thanks for having me.
Lance Glinn:
So Mike, you've worn so many hats in the NFL, from front office architect, to media analyst, to building one of the most influential football think tanks out there. When you look back at your time as an executive, even as the league has evolved, how did you think about the business side of the game? Obviously wanting to put out a winning product on the field, of course that's of the utmost importance, but also realizing it is a business and money needs to be made at the end of the day.
Mike Tannenbaum:
Yeah, I always felt like it was a partnership with the other side of the team. We always had to work collaboratively because you had to understand, this was a for-profit enterprise and obviously we're in the business of winning games. So having good partners that were on the other side was really important. So good communication, understanding what was important to them, their pain points, and how can we basically take that and assimilate it into the football calendar.
Lance Glinn:
So really like a... Or was it sort of working hand in hand with, like you said, the business side of things? Obviously you as general manager, overseeing roster construction, overseeing what the overall team is going to look like, coaching staff too. But it also is still working with the business side of things, with all the partnerships that an NFL team-
Mike Tannenbaum:
That's right.
Lance Glinn:
... has, with partnerships that the overall wide league has too. So it really was working back and forth?
Mike Tannenbaum:
Yeah, absolutely. Especially when you mention partnerships and they're really interested in working with player A or player B, how can we help them? Because growing revenue was obviously really important for the overall enterprise. And there's obviously ways you could do that, that you could make it minimally disruptive. Certain points of the off season, player has a day off in season. So effective communication usually dealt with that.
Lance Glinn:
So the NFL has transformed, obviously as we all know, a domestic powerhouse. I mean, it really does own a day of the week. We all know, obviously, the NFL owns Sundays, but the game has moved to other parts of the world. Obviously there are games in Europe. There are games in South America. There are games in, I think Australia is going to host an NFL game this year too. So it's gone from just this domestic powerhouse to really an international powerhouse, so to speak, too. When you think about the league's push abroad and the games, teams going out to Wembley Stadium or to, I don't remember the stadium's name in Mexico City, whatever it might be, that obviously is more business side, I think, than anything else, sending teams out there. What do you think the league has learned so far about really engaging fans of these countries that don't have NFL on a regular basis like we do here?
Mike Tannenbaum:
Yeah. What's interesting about that is I've been with teams, we played overseas multiple times. What's really cool, you go to a game in Wembley Stadium and it's the Jets against the Vikings or the Dolphins against whoever. There's jerseys from 32 teams. So these are passionate fans, and we have the greatest game in the world. We could argue what's the second-best game, but football is by far the best game in the world and people like it. They like consuming it. They like betting on it. They like watching it. They like all parts of it. And the more exposure it gets around the world, Europe, Australia, all over the world, I think when people are exposed to football, they love it.
Lance Glinn:
Yeah. So you were, I believe, with the Dolphins and you played abroad. I, again, think it was either London... From a GM's perspective, for someone who is in charge of the roster, obviously deals with that, do you like going abroad? I could imagine there's obviously pros, right? It's a cool experience, but also you have a game the next week that's likely going to be back in the United States and that travel could play a factor. Do you like going abroad from a GM's perspective?
Mike Tannenbaum:
Yeah. And look, when I was with the Jets, we were in London, we were in Tokyo. Look, I always told our guys the same thing, what a privilege. We get to showcase your talents all over the world. And the fact that people in London want to see it, or Tokyo, that's awesome. And I think the league's done a good job within reason of dealing with the logistics. And I think it was the Indianapolis Colts four or five years ago where they played... Obviously a team close to the Eastern Seaboard played a game in England, came back, didn't have a bye, had a home game and won that game. And I think that was pretty consequential because now that really frees up a lot more scheduling.
Lance Glinn:
Sure.
Mike Tannenbaum:
So look, if two teams go play halfway around the world, they're going to come back to a bye. That's natural. But if you get teams, and I don't know really where the cutoff is, but somewhere close to the Eastern Seaboard, so the Buffaloes, the Indies, the-
Lance Glinn:
Yeah, I mean, for the Giants or the Jets, going to London is the same as going out to California.
Mike Tannenbaum:
Yeah, yeah. Baltimore, that's easy. But as you go a little bit more west, so call it Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Indie, the fact that the Colts went to London, came back, won a game on a non-bye week was big. And I'll say this too, geographically, the Dolphins in Miami are closer to Brazil than they are Seattle.
Lance Glinn:
So Mike, obviously we're sitting here in Las Vegas. Now, granted the Raiders weren't an expansion franchise. They just moved from Oakland here to Vegas. But Roger Goodell has teased domestic expansion before, as well as international expansion. The economics of expansion makes sense. Obviously, it's more money for the league, but the logistics would obviously need to be something that needed to be worked out. Do you think besides maybe putting a team in Canada, we could see international expansion to a London or a Mexico City or a Brazil where there would be a lot more factors at play to, say, get a player to leave team X and move to the next team an ocean away.
Mike Tannenbaum:
Yeah, no, that's a fair point. And clearly that would have to be a major consideration. Maybe you put a couple teams in London and maybe they're... Are they American based?
Lance Glinn:
Sure.
Mike Tannenbaum:
There are a lot more considerations. But I think fundamentally you're asking the right questions, which is if you're outside the continental United States, could you retain and draw players to play there? So obviously that would have to be resolved. But obviously there's a lot of interest when you see the crowds in Mexico City or certainly Toronto is a great North American city as well.
Lance Glinn:
And could you... Because I would think that it would make... Obviously Canada makes sense, right? The Blue Jays are in Canada. Obviously there's a bunch of NHL teams in Canada, the Toronto Raptors. Every major sport, besides the NFL, has a team in Canada. So there's a clear roadmap for how to do that and how to do that successfully. And I think that would make sense for the NFL if you put a team in Toronto or you put a team, not all the way up into Calgary, but a team that's a little bit closer to the border of the United States and Canada.
But I do think it would just be a challenge to go and to put a team in another country when you have to cross an ocean, let's say, just because of the travel. You said normally there would be a bye after, you said, coming from London back to the United States, but it's not like you can give a team in London a bye every single week. They have to play the 18 games.
Mike Tannenbaum:
That's right. There's other ways to maybe do this, which is to say, "Hey, in the middle of the season, there's going to be an international week."
Lance Glinn:
Sure.
Mike Tannenbaum:
And if you're playing, let's say, 18 games and you have two byes and maybe you stagger it where the AFC plays internationally, they come back for a bye and then the NFC plays internationally. I think there's a lot of things you can look at and have 16 international games a year.
Lance Glinn:
Yeah. So while as GM, as I said before, you're obviously focused on putting a roster together, you're focused on winning games and you're focused on making sure that you're putting the best team on the field on every given Thursday, Sunday, Monday, whenever you're obviously playing that specific week if you don't have a bye week. But is there ever a time where revenue trends, league business initiatives, team-specific partnerships, again, affect decisions on things like that, on roster building, on staffing, on long-term planning of what the team that's actually playing is going to look like?
Mike Tannenbaum:
Yeah, absolutely, because it's going to ultimately affect the size of the salary cap. So as new revenue streams come online and you're trying to look at, okay, if the cap's $260 million this year, is it going to be 280, 300? Obviously you want to model out having as much information on, like, the macroeconomic drivers are very helpful. You're never going to know exactly what the cap is because there's a lot of things that are going to impact it with credits. And it's a pretty complicated formula, but you absolutely want to have a sense of where the health of the game is.
Lance Glinn:
And so would you be able to sort of project that out for five years, six years?
Mike Tannenbaum:
You try.
Lance Glinn:
To at least a certain extent.
Mike Tannenbaum:
I think three years is about where you feel like you have a reasonable idea of what's going to happen.
Lance Glinn:
I want to shift now to The 33rd Team. It obviously has become a go-to platform for both hardcore fans with the content that you just put out, as well as obviously industry insiders. When you first launched it, just what problem or problems were you trying to solve in the football information space for those both in football as well as those like myself, who's a fan that wants to learn more, wants to really engage with the content that you guys put out?
Mike Tannenbaum:
Yeah. Basically the whole idea of it was to look at people that are in the industry between jobs, a lot of coaches and GMs, and try to capture their content. And from there, we really pivoted to data. And the data we capture now, we feel like the information we can create, again, we're trying to serve, to answer your question, coaches and teams and give them insightful information that hopefully they find to be helpful and actionable. And we've been very fortunate to be able to pick the brains of a lot of coaches that are between opportunities and ask them, "Hey, what's your pain point? And when you're breaking down a game, what are you looking for?" So really trying to serve them.
Lance Glinn:
What's harder for you? Being in that GM seat with obviously a ton of pressure from fan bases on, and at least you obviously... My dad's a big Miami Dolphins fan, so I know the dedication that Miami Dolphins fans has. My producer, Ken, is a big New York Jets fan. And I know what New York Jets fans have been living for for the past 60 or almost 60 years now, trying to capture that next Super Bowl. What's harder? Is it being in that NFL GM seat, trying to put together a roster regardless of what roster you're putting together? Is it building a company like The 33rd Team and obviously trying to bring in an audience and engage an audience? Is it being on live TV, on an ESPN? What do you find the most difficult or the most pressure packed, so to speak?
Mike Tannenbaum:
Yeah, the answer is all of it. Well, I know I'm my biggest critic. I get up every day thinking the best is yet to come. When I ran a team, every day I would walk in, I would just look at the parking lot and be like, "There's a lot of men and women and their respective families that are really counting on us to win." And fortunately, we had good runs both places and went to the playoffs, but I felt like the way of the world, I can't let them down. I can't let down Woody Johnson, Steve Ross, who gave me incredible opportunities.
And now it's very much of a similar feeling of there's a lot of people that are counting on us to execute a business we can be proud of. And hopefully one day have a very good financial result for our investors and people that have invested in us. I feel a tremendous burden to serve and deliver for them. And we have a great COO, Mark Romagnoli, that 24 hours a day, we're talking, thinking, emailing, texting, like what could be better, what could we do different? So they're all the same. They're just a little different. And ESPN's an unbelievable opportunity. And I feel like I'm sitting with the greats of the game when I'm on that set and I feel like I got to bring it every time I'm on.
Lance Glinn:
Yeah, no, we had on the podcast a little while ago, Jimmy Pitaro on, because obviously ESPN, Disney, Disney, NYSE-listed company. And I know he's excited and he talked a lot about obviously ESPN's Super Bowl coming up in 2027. So I'm excited to see all of the different personalities that ESPN has dedicated towards football involved in the overall plannings, I'm sure. And he said that is going to be ESPN's biggest production really that they've ever put on, which is rightfully so. It's the Super Bowl.
And to your credit as well, the last time, frankly, the Jets had much success, you were obviously running that organization. So credit to you on that. Now, with The 33rd Team and just the topic of content and the sports landscape as a whole, it's obviously one that's very saturated. It's obviously one that's very noisy and it's really, really hard to stand out among it. I think The 33rd Team has really carved out a sort of niche that allows you guys to stand out because you can't just be broad. You really have to find where you fit. And I think The 33rd Team has really done that focusing on data forward, ideas and opinions, so on and so forth. What have you learned away from leading an NFL team about building a sports media brand in a world where everyone has a microphone, everyone has access to data, and you really need to make sure that what you put out separates yourself from everyone else?
Mike Tannenbaum:
I think it's about the why and the how. Everyone's going to know that today Jaylen Waddle got traded, but why did he get traded? How did he get traded? What does it mean? And looking at data and understanding data, and that to me, because I think sports fans are getting more and more sophisticated, be it because of reasons you probably know better than I do, like fantasy football-
Lance Glinn:
Of course. I mean, fantasy football, betting, just access overall.
Mike Tannenbaum:
So 10 years ago, you'd probably want to know, did Jaylen Waddle get traded, yes or no? Now it's like, well, how old is he? How many years is he on this contract? What's the dead money? What does it mean for the net picks of the trade? So I think that's sort of like, again, we've been a very coach- and GM-focused organization where there's a ring-fence group of experts that we can lean on, which we're very fortunate to be able to do that. And that has given us... To me, when we lean into that, that's when we're at our best.
Lance Glinn:
Yeah. And I think what it also provides, at least now more than ever before, is take the Jaylen Waddle trade, for example, I think it was, went Waddle for a first-round pick. We're the main... Obviously other pieces involved too with the Dolphins and the Broncos, but it's also like, okay, how can we determine who wins the trade, but in a more analytical way than just looking at it for a Jaylen Waddle first-round pick. It's like, okay, well, here are the analytics behind it. This is what a 30th overall pick can net you compared to what Jaylen Waddle's already achieved in the NFL. Who really wins out?
Mike Tannenbaum:
Yeah. And that's funny because part of it too from a team standpoint is the answer is we don't know.
Lance Glinn:
Yeah, exactly.
Mike Tannenbaum:
But we will in three years.
Lance Glinn:
Exactly.
Mike Tannenbaum:
That's funny, even covering the draft for ESPN, they get draft grades.
Lance Glinn:
You have no idea.
Mike Tannenbaum:
Yeah, yeah. Three years, we still may not know, but we're in this instant analysis world. There has to be a winner and a loser. And again, I try to always bring people behind the curtain, bring the audience to places they ordinarily couldn't get to. What is it like to give a player a pay cut or why are they getting a pay cut? Whatever it may be, bring them in and let them understand the process around it.
Lance Glinn:
Yeah, absolutely. Now, one of the things unique to The 33rd Team is the involvement of former executives, coaches, players, who obviously offer a perspective that we as fans don't always see, right? I might think I know as much about football as anyone else, but no one will know as much as those who actually work in it and play the game every Monday, Thursday, and Sunday. So from a business perspective, how did you think about assembling a roster or a staff for The 33rd Team and working with the right people to take this platform to the success that it has had?
Mike Tannenbaum:
Well, part of it was good fortune. One of the things that my wife and I really believe in is to give back. So the very roots of the organization were in somewhat like nonprofit. So we started off with a bunch of interns from UMass I paid out of my own pocket, and they gave me a lot of support getting ready for my first draft going back a number of years. And then that sort of replicated with a couple of other coaches I was talking to that were between jobs and they're like, "Well, wait a second, I need an intern." And then that kind of led to, all right, well, can we set up a program where they get credits and then the coach gets support? And then now the student is more marketable and it became a win-win where-
Lance Glinn:
And that's a great internship. As a sports fan, that's a great internship.
Mike Tannenbaum:
It is. And we've placed over 30 men and women with jobs in the NFL because they've interned for Doug Pederson or Bill Belichick or Dan Quinn.
Lance Glinn:
Sure.
Mike Tannenbaum:
I mean, we got a gazillion of them, so it's really been a win-win.
Lance Glinn:
Wow, talk about a great internship. I interned at quite a few places in college. I think I would pass them all up to have interned with a Doug Pederson or a Bill Belichick or a-
Mike Tannenbaum:
Although some of those coaches, the standards are pretty high.
Lance Glinn:
Oh yeah, of course. I can imagine.
Mike Tannenbaum:
So be careful what you wish for.
Lance Glinn:
I can imagine. I can imagine.
Mike Tannenbaum:
I mean, that goes back to days when I first started working for Coach Parcells and I'd hand him a big document and he always called me Mr. T. He's like, "Mr. T, remember one wrong, all wrong." I'm like, "Oh my God, I hope there's not any typos." And that would keep me up at night.
Lance Glinn:
Yeah, no, speaking of Coach Parcells, we had Phil McConkey on the podcast and the stories he had to talk about with Coach Parcells, specifically obviously around the Giants Super Bowl, but the stories he had to talk about Coach Parcells and the discipline that he instilled into those players, obviously with the Giants and then Jets, Patriots, Cowboys, so on and so forth, but a lot of stories surrounding Coach Parcells that he'd [inaudible 00:17:43] too.
Mike Tannenbaum:
And they're all true, the discipline and the rigor. I mean, even to this day, when I travel and I get back whatever, two, three in the morning, he used to have a rule that when you travel, you had to go back to the office, you had to unpack your stuff, you had to fill out your expense report. So the next day you were rolling.
Lance Glinn:
You were ready to go. Yeah.
Mike Tannenbaum:
And his words are still in my head. I'll come back at whatever hour and got to unpack, plug everything in, do the expense report, and then next day-
Lance Glinn:
That's behind you.
Mike Tannenbaum:
... that was ancient history. What are we doing today to get better?
Lance Glinn:
Yeah. And so you've seen the league through the lens of team building, of contract negotiations, TV dynamics, the lens of media and the lens of analytics too. When you think about the next decade of the NFL as it evolves, and it's changed a lot over the last one, will continue to change over the next one, what forces do you anticipate most reshaping how the business of football operates?
Mike Tannenbaum:
Well, I do think it's interesting. The league in the last couple of years have allowed private equity in for the first time to make minority non-controlling investments. It'd be interesting to see where that leads to next. Do we see more of that? Right now, you have to be able to have a 30% equity to have a controlling stake because of the valuations keep going higher and higher. In our lifetime, do we see a $20 billion valuation? 30%, someone's got to write a check for what, $6 billion. How many people could do that? So do we see publicly traded companies one day? In our lifetime, could it be the Proctor & Gamble Bengals playing the American Express Giants?
Lance Glinn:
Yep. And there, I must say too, there are, like Manchester United, for example, they are a listed company. Manchester, could we ever see in our lifetime a... I mean, I know the Packers symbolically sell their stock, but Manchester United, you could invest and trade Manchester United stock on the New York Stock Exchange. Do we ever get to that point of the New York Giants being an NYSE-listed company, the New York Jets being an NYSE-listed company?
Mike Tannenbaum:
Yeah. I mean, if you think about it, that's the ultimate sort of American ideal, which is let the market decide how much these teams are worth. So I don't know if we'll get there in our lifetime, but I'm not so sure if we sat here 20 years ago and you asked me the same question, if I'd be like, "You know what? One day private equity may own a small..." And we'd be like, "No, that's crazy. That couldn't happen." So yeah, I think that'll be well beyond the purview of the next five to 10 years though.
Lance Glinn:
So as we begin to wrap up our conversation, we are obviously the official podcast of the New York Stock Exchange. So I have to ask about the two local New York, New Jersey. I'm a New Jersey born and raised guy. They're based in East Rutherford, both teams. So I think of them as more New Jersey than New York, but obviously the New York Giants and the New York Jets. I'm a big Giants fan, full disclosure. I used to have Giants season tickets. I'm obviously very excited about Coach Harbaugh, excited obviously about Jaxson Dart and everything that comes with that. We actually just had Jameis Winston on the trading floor of the New York Stock Exchange recently too, so that was exciting for me. As well, what are your thoughts just on some Giants fans, not necessarily me, but some Giants fans thinking that the 2026 New York Giants could potentially be the 2025 New England Patriots?
Mike Tannenbaum:
I think they're going to make more material, without question, progress. I think John Harbaugh's a transformational coach. I would say this, they've won what, seven games in two years. So even if they-
Lance Glinn:
Don't remind me.
Mike Tannenbaum:
But all my point is, manage expectations.
Lance Glinn:
Sure.
Mike Tannenbaum:
If they double wins and they win seven or eight, that's a heck of a year. To get to the NFC championship game, I think that's a really heavy lift in year one, but I think John Harbaugh will be a great coach.
Lance Glinn:
And then on the Jets side, improved off season.
Mike Tannenbaum:
Yep.
Lance Glinn:
Geno Smith is back at quarterback for the Jets. Obviously a big year two for Aaron Glenn. Are you a little bit more optimistic? I think it's still a rebuilding year in some respects for the Jets. Obviously a lot of first-round picks to come over the next few years. Are you at least a little bit more optimistic that there will be an improved New York Jets team in 2026 compared to what we saw this past year?
Mike Tannenbaum:
Yeah, no question about it. And I think knowing Aaron Glenn and how hard he works and how much this means to him, I think it starts with him, and in year two, there's a lot that they could build on. And I think the team is clearly better today than it was a month ago. And like you said, they have five first-round picks.
Lance Glinn:
So as we wrap up our conversation, when you look at the NFL's trajectory, what just excites you most personally about where the league is headed moving forward?
Mike Tannenbaum:
I just think the spirit of the competition. There's other sports that are worrying about, "Hey, our teams don't compete hard every night." You can't lose a quarter in the NFL and not be like, "Oh my God, this is disaster." Everything in the NFL matters. And as long as they have that, everything else could be fixed because right now should be, I'm sure there'll be 18 games in the not-so-distant future, but right now there's 17. They all matter. Every one of them matters. It's life and death and you don't see that in other sports. And that's what Americans like to see. They want to see competition with the best athletes in the world, with the best coaches, with everything at stake every five minutes.
Lance Glinn:
Absolutely. Well, I'm certainly optimistic about where my New York Giants are headed. And Mike, I thank you for the great conversation. Thanks so much for joining us Inside the ICE House.
Mike Tannenbaum:
All right. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3:
That's our conversation for this week. Remember to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you listen, and follow us on X @ICEHousePodcast. From the New York Stock Exchange, we'll talk to you again next week Inside the ICE House. Information contained in this podcast was obtained in part from publicly available sources and not independently verified. Neither ICE nor its affiliates make any representations or warranties expressed or implied as to the accuracy or completeness of the information and do not sponsor, approve, or endorse any of the content herein, all of which is presented solely for informational and educational purposes. Nothing herein constitutes an offer to sell, a solicitation of an offer to buy any security, or a recommendation of any security or trading practice. Some portions of the preceding conversation may have been edited for the purpose of length or clarity.