Lance Glinn:
Welcome in to another episode of the Inside the ICE House Podcast. Today I am joined by Jason Simpson. He's the CEO of Orla Mining. Jason, thanks so much for joining us. Happy to have you here.
Jason Simpson:
Yeah, thanks for having me. I'd love to talk with you.
Lance Glinn:
So, Jason, every company has an origin story that really shapes its identity. And Orla's began in 2007 as Red Mile Minerals before rebranding to Orla Mining in 2015. You haven't been with the company since 2007, and we're going to touch on your journey in just a little bit. But you've guided it through really transformative years since taking over as CEO in 2018.
Just what was the original vision for the company? And how has Orla since you took over the leadership role evolved to really make that vision a reality?
Jason Simpson:
Yeah, I actually agree with you. The origin stories are quite unique in many companies and ours is absolutely instrumental in what the company is continuing into today. So no, I wasn't around in 2007. I was actually in the base metals business, which we'll probably talk about a little later.
But the origin began with our founding shareholder, Pierre Lassonde. And I like to tell the origin story because it really is the DNA of what the company remains to be today. So he put together a company, and Pierre Lassonde, for those who don't know, is a gold investor, a billionaire who's started many gold companies, the founder of Franco Nevada. Wanted to form a new gold company in time for the next gold bull market.
So keep in mind, as we went through the end of the 2010s and in 2013 and onwards, we were in a gold bear market. And so that was the time he began to make his moves. And he used Red Mile to start the company, but then put some assets into the company. Cerro Quema in Panama was the first and then followed by Camino Rojo in Mexico. He got them in a bear market, so a very opportunistic price as the beginning of the company.
And then what he did with that is he was able to attract a legendary board of directors led by our chairman, Chuck Jeannes, former Goldcorp CEO. And the rest of the group of directors attracted by Chuck Jeannes formed the start of the company. And so now they had the assets and they had the guiding hands in our directors led by Chuck and they went out looking for management.
And that's when my doorbell rang. I had just finished building a large mine in Mexico for a company called Torex Gold, producer of over 500,000 ounces a year. And here was Orla with an opportunity that I could level up from COO to CEO, build this new gold company. And of course, the first thing we needed to do was build another mine in Mexico.
So that was the origin. And I'm happy to say that Pierre proudly says he's never sold a share, owns 40 million shares of Orla. And believes that if we keep creating the kind of value we've created over the next year, he could have made a billion dollars on this company that he founded Orla Mining.
Lance Glinn:
Wow. And so you say they needed management. They come up with a board of directors, they then need management. That's when your doorbell was rung. You were with Torex and you have experience or had previous experience in mining, 30 plus year career.
Just what first attracted you to the industry? Because it isn't necessarily an industry that a lot of people grow up wanting to be a part of. So what first attracted you to mining and the industry as a whole?
Jason Simpson:
The word I would use is I'm an adventurer. And I'm an engineer by trade and I like to build things. And mining seemed to be the discipline within engineering that I would get to do both.
I wasn't interested in sitting behind a computer desk designing gears as a mechanical engineer. I was interested in traveling the world, having adventures, seeing different cultures and experience in the world that way. My father comes from the oil industry and I was brought up, my sister was born in Singapore. I was brought up with a desire to travel the world and seek adventure. And mining is exactly that type of business.
And so I joined it because I wanted to go on adventures. And I've had a lot of adventures over 30 years, as you can imagine, 15 years in the base metals' industry all over the world, and the last 15 years in the gold business also all over the world. And so that's what attracted me to it.
And as I always say, "Each time you do a good job, you get a new opportunity." And I'm very proud of the team and the company we started at Torex that continues to do well to this day. And that enabled me to get the job at Orla. And the last seven years have really been something remarkable.
And we're about to close the New York Stock Exchange almost exactly seven years after we opened the Toronto Stock Exchange. And of course in that time we've delivered well over 1,200% return for our investors.
Lance Glinn:
Yeah, I think it speaks to, you've mentioned that number 1,200%, speaks to the growth that Orla has had since you took over in 2018. And since 1995, since your career in mining really began, industries change, right? Sectors change. We see it now just over the last couple of years with things like AI, data analytics. Data analytics, excuse me. Automation.
There's the technology part, there's safety and sustainability. There's community engagement too, that also has to change sort of as the years go by and things become more prioritized than say they were just a decade ago.
If I asked you over the last 30, how things have changed, I'm sure we could have a whole podcast just on that alone, right? But over the last five to 10, 15 or so years, what have been the biggest trends that you've seen? What have been the biggest changes that have really pushed mining to kind of its current generation where it is today?
Jason Simpson:
Yeah, I'll offer you two things that I've noticed and are absolute changes. The first is our industry has matured. It's an industry that's actually frankly quite old, but we've done a lot of maturing over the last 15 years. Maturing in the right way, I would offer.
Evolving our business to understand the needs of society and how we can be an industry within society that people can get behind. And so a lot of the corporate responsibility. We have a chief sustainability officer that keeps us focused on that every single day. So that we can honor our commitments to all of our stakeholders, the local communities where we operate, our employees, the neighbors that we have, and the host nations.
So that's the one thing I would say has changed when I began in 1995, was not really a consideration. 10 years later, it became sort of just something you had to do, to today where it's integrated in our very decision making.
Lance Glinn:
It's a priority.
Jason Simpson:
It absolutely is. So that's the one change and of course that's for the better and made our business more tolerable for society.
And the second thing that has changed, what has never changed is the commodities that we mine are essential for our very existence. That has not changed. What has changed is the world awakening to that reality. That for all of those things you mentioned, AI, data, energy, everything, electrification.
To the very food we eat, to the water we drink, to keep the clean water clean. To harvest more food from smaller and smaller patches of ground. To building skyscrapers, to iPhones, electric cars, or the energy that takes to power them, you need the commodities that mining delivers. And what has changed, what hasn't changed is that that was always necessary. What has changed is the world awakening to the fact that we need these minerals.
And interestingly, in the current geopolitical landscape, a certain nationalism to making sure that they can provide it either domestically or through countries that they feel comfortable partnering with. And all of that is giving us an opportunity to lever our now responsible industry to the benefit of society, and actually deliver the commodities that they need and are now asking us to bring to them.
Lance Glinn:
You said something interesting there in your answer. You said the world sort of awakened to the essential need for everything that mining provides. It seems like it was sort of a change of public perception, to what mining was, what the public thought of mining, to what it does now.
And when it realizes that all that mining does provide, how important was that change in public perception for just the health and even the future of the industry?
Jason Simpson:
Well, I think we have an opportunity which we should not squander. I think the electrification boom is what gave us the catalyst. As I described, it's not just electrification that commodities are needed for, but it provided the catalyst. It gave us the opportunity to help people understand what the modern industry looks like.
And so we need to make sure that we take advantage of this opportunity and explain the great companies like Agnico Eagle, like Orla Mining, what they are doing to responsibly deliver these minerals that we need. So the opportunity we have is to, now that we have an audience that's open to listening to explain how this industry can be done responsibly.
And Orla's certainly doing their part in that, as many of my peers are also doing. And of course it's to all of our benefit to live in the world that we want to live in, with the things that we enjoy being available to us, the raw materials come from us miners.
Lance Glinn:
Absolutely. So, Jason, I do want to shift the conversation to Orla Mining now. And I want to start broad because we're recording towards the end of 2025. And this episode, when it comes out, it's going to be early 2026. So let's start there.
2025, a strong year for the company. You mentioned just the last seven years, the growth that you had. I think you mentioned 1,200 or so percent. But as you map out the next chapter and look forward to this next 365 days, what does success look like for Orla in 2026? What are sort of the big priorities and opportunities that you see for the next year ahead?
Jason Simpson:
Well, thanks. And that's top of mind. I just left a board strategy and budgeting meeting that we had here in your building, so that's on the tip of my tongue, what we need to do for 2026. But if I just back up to how we got to where we are today, because it actually influences what we're doing next year and for the next five years.
We built a company by focusing on some clear objectives. We find gold, we build mines, and we operate them responsibly. And that actually hasn't changed from five years ago for the next five years in what we need to do in 2026. And so we did that through building a mine in Mexico, acquiring a mine in Nevada, and then acquiring a mine in Canada that's pushed us over 300,000 ounces a year at very competitive costs.
So what does next year look like? Well, we have a third mine to build. So we will be building our mine in Nevada next year, which will drop our cost profile and push the company over 500,000 ounces a year. And as I describe it, that's only about halfway through our ambition.
So by the end of the decade, we want to have the company positioned that we have four operating mines in at least three nations for the benefits of diversification. With two development projects underway to continue to replenish the pipeline and grow our production and advance ourselves by the end of the decade towards a million ounces.
So if we've been able to produce 1,200% return in the last five years for our investors-
Lance Glinn:
Just think of the next five.
Jason Simpson:
... if we do that for the next five, I think all of our stakeholders will benefit.
Lance Glinn:
Jason, let's look more closely at your portfolio and start with Camino Rojo in Mexico. This was an important mine for Orla Mining and has been a real cornerstone for the company since it was acquired back in 2017.
But today, one of the most intriguing aspects of the mine is the sulfide resource below its oxide put. How significant is that opportunity, that sulfide? And what could continued development of Camino Rojo mean for Orla's growth strategy?
Jason Simpson:
Camino Rojo, as I mentioned, was the second asset in the portfolio by Pierre Lassonde. But it's always been the most important asset for Orla because of the tremendous amount of gold resources at that deposit.
If we just back up, the company was founded upon a principle that was not created by Orla, but has been utilized by Glamis Gold, Agnico, Alamos. And the concept is start the company with low capital intensity, low risk oxide heap leaches. So what that means is we can actually, without a lot of risk, generate tremendous cash flow.
The downside of those kind of mines is they tend to be short nature. And so you can't run a company forever on that type of mine. You need to use that as a platform to build off of. So that's what we did. We built Camino Rojo oxide mine to generate the cash to buy the Nevada asset and the Canadian asset and grow our portfolio.
But underneath that oxide mine has always been many millions of ounces that are not obtainable through a heap leach process. So as Camino Rojo evolves, we're about halfway through its mine life. As we go through the next five years of the oxide portion of the story, we'll go to the next phase of Camino Rojo, which is right below the oxide mine.
It's the sulfide gold ounces. And we have over four million ounces there that we intend to bring into production by the end of the decade. So the phase of Camino Rojo will change from oxide to sulfide, and in doing so we'll actually increase our production profile in Mexico.
So we'll go from about 120,000 ounces a year out of that asset at the high margins that I talked about, push ourselves over 200,000 ounces a year from that same asset just in the next phase of its life. And so Camino Rojo will always be a foundation for Orla mining. It's what we started the company on and a project that will continue for decades.
Lance Glinn:
And so one of the beauties of what I do is that I'm always learning. And full disclosure, going into this interview, and as I was doing my research over the last couple of weeks, I didn't know much about mining. I've actually, I've been in a mine before. I went on a school trip in New Jersey and they took us to a mine, took us down a little shaft. It was very cool. I don't remember what the mine was called. But I didn't know a lot.
And so I hear you answer specifically about Camino Rojo and it really interests me. Because did you know, and this might be a silly question for someone to be asking someone like you, but so when you have Camino Rojo and you have the original life cycle of the mine and you talk about this sulfide resource below, did you know that was there? Or was that sort of like a discovery as the mine life continued?
Jason Simpson:
We knew part of it was there. And so when Pierre acquired it, we knew that the sulfide portion of the deposit was there. What we didn't know yet was how we could get it.
Lance Glinn:
Got it.
Jason Simpson:
And so what we did know is that we know how to get the oxide portion and we know that that'll generate hundreds of millions of dollars a year. And we can use that money and time that we're mining it to figure out the sulfides.
So when I joined the company, I didn't have an answer of how we were going to get the sulfides out, but I'm a mining engineer and so it's my job to figure that stuff out. And of course, I have a team that did an incredible job to figure it out.
And so while we're harvesting value from the oxides, we figured out how to extract the sulfides. And in doing so, we discovered more. So that's why I mentioned that we knew about a portion of it. But in our work to understand how we were going to build the next phase of Camino Rojo, we kept exploring and we discovered a new zone.
And so that's what gives me confidence to say Camino Rojo will be going on for decades. I've now built two mines in Mexico. I've been there over a decade. I'm a big believer in Mexico and the great people. Our mine is 100% Mexican constructed and operated. Great hardworking people that... Mexico is one of the few places I've been in the world where you can get everything domestically. Great talent, hardworking people, supplies, services, and so on.
So I look forward to having Mexico as a part of the Orla portfolio for many decades to come. And it just has to change and evolve. And we'll move from the first mine to the second phase of the mine into the future decades.
Lance Glinn:
See, I think that's fascinating. I think stuff like that is fascinating. Because like I said, I do my research going into these podcasts, but I can only learn so much through the course of me putting together a script and the questions that I'm going to ask you.
But hearing from people like you who work on these cool projects, who do these things that not a lot of people know about. That are so essential to what we talked about earlier, that are so essential to everyday life, I think is just really cool. So the fact that you knew that some sulfide was there, but you didn't know to the extent of how much was there until you continued to explore, until you continued to discover, I think is really, really interesting.
And you talk about Mexico, Camino Rojo. In Canada, there's a Musselwhite gold mine. This was a major acquisition for Orla in early 2025. It has a long operating history and exploring potential. How big is this upside of bringing in Musselwhite? How do you unlock more value from this asset in 2026 and beyond?
Jason Simpson:
Yeah. So it was a big step for us to be sure. We paid $850 million for the asset, not an insignificant sum, even for Orla. And so it was a big step for us.
But where it began was the asset was well known by our chairman, former Goldcorp CEO, was very knowledgeable about Musselwhite because he used to own it. And coupled with a partnership we had with Newmont, the owner of the mine at the time. At that time, they were our second-largest shareholder. And so we were able to engage in a competitive process and acquire that mine.
And the reason we paid $850 million for it was because we believed in the people and we believed in the geology. And so I'll start with the people who I want to just give a shout-out to. They are exceeding all of our expectations. We'll be able to disclose our fourth quarter results, and everybody's already seen the first couple of quarters we own Musselwhite we're overachieving.
So we'll be able to demonstrate in our first year of ownership, not even a full year. Because we acquired it in 2024, but we closed the deal end of February. So we've effectively owned the mine for 10 months this year, and we're going to exceed all expectations. And so the people have come through for us and I'd like to thank them for that.
But what we needed to do for them is create a new future for Musselwhite. And the way you create a new future in mines is through geology. And so our chief geologist, Sylvain Guerard, and his team believed that Musselwhite still had a lot more to give. And if we acquired it, we could test our thesis.
So for the last six months, we've been drilling at our Canadian operation. And as recently as this week, we were able to demonstrate to the world that we were right. That we acquired an asset that had about a little over a million ounces and we've just added two million more.
So what does that mean in terms of the mine? Well, that takes a mine life from less than 10 years to many decades. And with that sort of runway at the mine, we can make investments in our people and our equipment and really optimize the mine to be more efficient. And so we're working with the team in Canada to invest in them and invest in that site through equipment and otherwise, that will continue to increase our production scale, reduce our costs. And like Mexico, Canada will be an important pillar of the portfolio for Orla.
Lance Glinn:
And we often talk on the podcast about M&A and I'll ask various CEOs and various industries about it. And we talk about things like culture. We talk about things like fit, right? Bringing in talent, integrating that talent into an already existing portfolio.
And you mentioned some of that in your answer, you mentioned the people and everything like that. But I'd imagine, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd imagine in mining, there's more to bringing in than just having the right culture, having the right fit. Like you're working with, as you say, geology, you're working with a part of the earth.
It's more than just bringing in another company that's already in existence. So how do you and your team, take Musselwhite, for example? How do you and your team go about determining the right pieces to bring in, determining that Musselwhite was the right mine to go and target? That it was the right mine for Orla and its portfolio moving forward?
Jason Simpson:
Yeah. So the decision on Musselwhite came down to some specific things. And again, I'll reference the geology. The first thing we look at in all M&A opportunities is the geology. And the two things we ask is, is the gold that the vendor is saying there, is it actually there? Yes or no?
Lance Glinn:
Yeah.
Jason Simpson:
And then the second thing is how much more could there be? Because that's really the optionality in the gold mining business for all of our investors, is the gold that isn't discovered yet. And so in a circumstance where Sylvain, again, determines the gold is there and I think there could be a lot more, that's when we get really excited.
And that's what we get really excited about with Musselwhite. But sometimes the rocks are placed in a part of the world that's actually quite difficult, but that's not the case in Musselwhite. Musselwhite is in Ontario, Canada in the underground mines of Northern Ontario where I started my career.
Lance Glinn:
So you're familiar with the area?
Jason Simpson:
Yeah. So we know the area, we know the stability of the nation. It's helpful in our industry to have a Canadian postal code in your portfolio. And of course we'll have a US one next year. And so that was a couple of things that were the right thing for us.
And then finally, as I said, you have to be able to transact. And we knew based upon our relationship with Newmont and the process that they were running, that we had an opportunity here. And then finally you have to be able to pay for it. And thanks to our existing investors, our existing lending institutions, we were able to purchase the asset without issuing any shares.
And that's some of the reason we've had such a positive market reaction. And the reason we were able to do that is through a variety of financial instruments. But a couple of them that I'll cite is partnering with our long-term banking partners to expand our debt facility.
And then the story comes back to Pierre. And then Pierre and our largest investor, Fairfax and Prem Watsa, helping us with the last $200 million. So those two gentlemen wrote us a check for $200 million, which enabled us to acquire Musselwhite without issuing shares. And now since the acquisition, we've been able to deliver not only production results in the short term, but expansion plans for the long term.
Lance Glinn:
The final piece of that portfolio is the South Railroad project in Nevada, and it's a big piece of Orla's future growth story. What makes this project so important for Orla Mining moving forward?
Jason Simpson:
So this is coming back to our initial roots. Remember I told you about the importance of these open pit heap leaches because they're such high margin projects. And this comes back to the concept I described about geology.
And so what we found in Nevada was another open pit heap leach. So adding to our portfolio one of these high margin mines was very important to us. So it's a replica of Camino Rojo in Mexico, in that it will generate hundreds of millions of dollars free cashflow a year, but that only lasts for 10 years.
So similar to Mexico, similar to Canada, what we saw in Nevada was we had a 30 kilometer stretch of land on the Carlin Trend in Nevada, a place that has delivered hundreds of millions of ounces of gold. So we checked the box that yes, we had a high margin starter mine, but in that 30 kilometer land package, we'd be able to discover gold for decades.
And so we knew we'd build the first mine to get started, continue to drill, and be able to discover more gold right next to the gold we already found. Grow our gold pipeline to the benefit of our shareholders and then add that gold to the cash balance of the company over the next 20 to 30 years.
Lance Glinn:
So, Jason, as we begin to start wrapping up our conversation, I do want to quickly touch on AI. It's obviously making waves. It's something we talked about a little bit earlier in our conversation too, but it's making waves across industries ever since really that ChatGPT boom in say, let's say 2022. It's become an everyday part of our lives.
How do you see AI being implemented and integrated in various parts of mining exploration, predictive maintenance, production? And how is it being implemented at Orla Mining?
Jason Simpson:
Yeah. First thing I say is I see... I'm old enough to remember the dawn of the internet. And I think of AI a lot like the dawn of the internet. It's going to be an incredible tool for all manner of industry to utilize to improve the various industries.
And specifically to mining, you mentioned a few of them. There's opportunities within our exploration work, there's opportunities within our processing work, and all range of things. And what some people don't always understand about mining is we need almost every skillset in mining, whether it's human resources, environmental engineers, processing engineers, geologists, and on and on, accounting professionals.
So we are going to deploy the AI tool to Orla's benefits, certainly. And just like the dawn of the internet, we have to take precautions to make sure that our private information is protected and that we're using the tool responsibly.
But we do intend to use the tool. We'll make sure that there's guardrails that it's used responsibly. And of course, the parallel connection for us is as a mineral guy, AI takes a lot of minerals.
Lance Glinn:
Yeah, it does, it does.
Jason Simpson:
Because in order to produce the power and so on. So we have this dual benefit of being a tool that we can utilize, plus it's a consumer of our very industry. So I look forward to the next generation of opportunities that AI can deliver when used responsibly, and Oral will not be left behind.
Lance Glinn:
So as we wrap up our conversation, and you sort of answered it a little bit a while ago as we looked toward 2026 and beyond. But if we were to talk again five years from now, and we're sitting in that chair or you're sitting in that chair, I'm sitting this chair, in 2030, where does Orla fit into the mining forecast? What does success look like moving forward for the company?
Jason Simpson:
Yeah. So we actually have a very precise equation for what we want Orla to look like by 2030, and it's about double the size we are today, double the value. And specifically, it looks like four operating mines in at least three nations with two development projects being worked on, producing around a million ounces.
And we believe that delivering that over the next five years will double our value again. And over the last five years, the next five years, we'll continue to generate benefits at the state levels in the host countries where we operate. At the employee level for our thousands of employees that have a career with us. For the communities that surround our sites.
And so all of our stakeholders will benefit from the value that we create. And when we're double the size, we can expect to double the value for everyone.
Lance Glinn:
Well, Jason, this has been a fascinating conversation. I've learned a lot over the course of our 30 minutes. Thank you so much for joining me Inside the ICE House.
Jason Simpson:
Thank you very much.